Northallerton Disruption

[142094]

One thought that has occurred to me is, if visibility is decent (so not thick fog) and it's daylight why could we not permit drivers to use short diversionary routes (such as the low lines that avoid Northallerton which are only a mile or so long) by driving on sight and slowly (say whatever it would take to stop up to a maximum speed of maybe 15mph). That would help keep traffic moving and would surely not be overly dangerous? Obviously something like this wouldn't work on a longer distance (for example you couldn't really drive the whole way from Darlington to Eaglescliffe to Northallerton at 15mph) but over short distances of a mile or so perhaps it could help keep trains moving?

The problem would come when some accident happens due to doing what you say, and it is attributed due to a lack of up to date route knowledge.

In the case of Northallerton, you'd still need to get onto the avoiders, which probably wouldn't have been possible in this case as you'd need to go via Eaglescliffe.

 

[tbtc]

Yes but if their route knowledge between Stevenage and Kings Cross via Potters Bar was up to date then there's no reason why their route knowledge Stevenage and Kings Cross via Hertford North should be allowed to lapse though as it's the main diversionary route south of Peterborough as it allows direct access to Bounds Green without needing two reversals at Kings Cross and Bowes Park not to mention it offers a alternative route north/south if the usual route via Potters Bar is not available.

I know it's highly unlikely for any train crew member to sign every bit of track but if you read my comment above you will see where I am coming from.

I see where you are coming from, I just don't think that it'd be realistic to have all staff fully signed for all routes - if you are signed for the Hertford North loop then that'd cover that diversion, but would you also be signed for diversions via Cambridge (if there were a problem south of Peterborough)? And then Lincoln. And...

Its a lot easier for shorter distance TOCs where there aren't so many potential diversion routes to deal with, but East Coast will always struggle with this kind of thing.

 

[David]

East Coast trains can't go via Sunderland except for HST's and I don't think they ever go that way.

I thought that the 91s could be dragged that way to Newcastle, as long as the pans were locked down and secured.

 

[PinzaC55]

AFAIK they are "out of gauge" since Sunderland was rebuilt for the Metro.

 

[DarloRich]

I have been on an NX HST that ran via Stillington and i have been on a 91 dragged by a 47 via Stillington. (Also been via the coast and Leamside on HST under diversions)

is the reason that EC dont run via Allans West the need for a reversal at Eaglescliffe? I recall when the electrification works took place around Darlington ECML trains were diverted and called at Eaglescliffe. There was then a Pacer shuttle to Darlington

However the main question is route knowledge of the drivers.

 

[PinzaC55]

I have been on an NX HST that ran via Stillington and i have been on a 91 dragged by a 47 via Stillington. (Also been via the coast and Leamside on HST under diversions)

is the reason that EC dont run via Allans West the need for a reversal at Eaglescliffe? I recall when the electrification works took place around Darlington ECML trains were diverted and called at Eaglescliffe. There was then a Pacer shuttle to Darlington

However the main question is route knowledge of the drivers.

The Stillington route is a different kettle of fish to Sunderland because (I think) it is mostly cleared to Berne Gauge partly because there are no platforms, as would be the Leamside if the numbskulls hadn't closed it. If by "electrification at Darlington" you mean 1990 when Darlington was first electrified then by definition all trains were diesel before the juice was turned on so diversion via Stillington or Sunderland was not a problem.
BTW there used to be the "Geneva Curve" at Darlington which allowed trains from the Dinsdale line to run straight onto the ECML southbound. If it hadn't been lifted it would have been very useful.

 

[DarloRich]

The Stillington route is a different kettle of fish to Sunderland because (I think) it is mostly cleared to Berne Gauge partly because there are no platforms, as would be the Leamside if the numbskulls hadn't closed it. If by "electrification at Darlington" you mean 1990 when Darlington was first electrified then by definition all trains were diesel before the juice was turned on so diversion via Stillington or Sunderland was not a problem.
BTW there used to be the "Geneva Curve" at Darlington which allowed trains from the Dinsdale line to run straight onto the ECML southbound. If it hadn't been lifted it would have been very useful.

I meant that while the electrification works were going on BR ran a Pacer shuttle between Darlo and Eaglescliffe to connect with north and south bound Inter City trains. All these will have been HST. It was about the same time that I did Leamside and the coast route.

Thinking on it I have done York- Northallerton - Stockton (Reverse) - Eaglescliffe - Allens West - Darlo on a diverted Voyager. Which was a bit strange!

Would the Geneva Curve be of any real use today? What service would use it? All the freight and industry has gone :cry:

Where all of those spindly pines are on the up side just south of the station is the site of Geneva P Way works isn’t it? I wonder why that has not been built on. It can’t be as polluted as Darchem or Stooperdale surely

 

[Jeremy B]

I meant that while the electrification works were going on BR ran a Pacer shuttle between Darlo and Eaglescliffe to connect with north and south bound Inter City trains. All these will have been HST. It was about the same time that I did Leamside and the coast route.

Thinking on it I have done York- Northallerton - Stockton (Reverse) - Eaglescliffe - Allens West - Darlo on a diverted Voyager. Which was a bit strange!

Would the Geneva Curve be of any real use today? What service would use it? All the freight and industry has gone :cry:

Where all of those spindly pines are on the up side just south of the station is the site of Geneva P Way works isn’t it? I wonder why that has not been built on. It can’t be as polluted as Darchem or Stooperdale surely

I recall travelling about 3 years ago on the old 2030 HST from Kings Cross to Newcastle on a Saturday night. It went from Northallerton to Eaglescliffe & stopped just beyond the station. After about 10 minutes it reversed back through the station without stopping then went onto to Darlington via the Dinsdale route.