Northern 150s to Nottingham

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by DanTrain, 15 Jul 2018.

  1. DanTrain

    DanTrain Member

    Messages:
    450
    Joined:
    9 Jul 2017
    Location:
    Sheffield
    I’ve noticed a couple of times recently that Northern have been running 150s down to Nottingham, both as single units and one I saw today was leading a 158 (even odder as they normally run 2 car). Is there a reason for this, are they short of 158s at the moment, or is it just due to engineering works or something?

    Dan
     
  2. Registered users do not see these banners - join or log in today!

    Rail Forums

     
  3. PHILIPE

    PHILIPE Established Member

    Messages:
    8,704
    Joined:
    14 Nov 2011
    Location:
    Caerphilly
    Although I can't explain the details of recent happenings, 150s have frequently run to Nottingham from Leeds
     
  4. Kite159

    Kite159 Established Member

    Messages:
    10,759
    Joined:
    27 Jan 2014
    Location:
    West of Andover
    Heck last Saturday (7th) there was a pair of 153s on a Leeds - Nottingham service (departed Sheffield around 10:05)
     
  5. DanTrain

    DanTrain Member

    Messages:
    450
    Joined:
    9 Jul 2017
    Location:
    Sheffield
    Sounds like a fun ride :lol:.

    I hadn’t realised this was fairly regular, I’ve only ever seen non-158s in the last few weeks.
     
  6. cactustwirly

    cactustwirly Established Member

    Messages:
    2,645
    Joined:
    10 Apr 2013
    Not a new thing because of the Northern random unit generator.
    But since the timetable change, the Nottingham's interwork with the Lincoln services.
     
  7. capital12

    capital12 Member

    Messages:
    410
    Joined:
    20 Aug 2012
    You were lucky it was a pair, a couple of Tuesdays ago there was a single 153 heading to Nottingham from Sheffield at around 1700!
     
  8. DanTrain

    DanTrain Member

    Messages:
    450
    Joined:
    9 Jul 2017
    Location:
    Sheffield
    Oh ok, that might well be part of it - I say a 158 heading off to Lincoln recently too, thought it was odd.
    It's these new 'Northern Connect' routes, they want to make people really appreciate the new stock when it arrives ;).
     
  9. alansheppard77

    alansheppard77 Member

    Messages:
    17
    Joined:
    16 Aug 2013
    Location:
    Bempton,East Riding
    anything is better than a 150
     
  10. Kite159

    Kite159 Established Member

    Messages:
    10,759
    Joined:
    27 Jan 2014
    Location:
    West of Andover
    Send in a Merseytravel refurbished 142 :lol:
     
  11. Harpers Tate

    Harpers Tate Member

    Messages:
    975
    Joined:
    10 May 2013
    I agree with that assessment, and I include 14xs in my judgement. Noisy cramped, dismal exterior view, nothing redeeming at all. Many of the contemporary electrics of similar construction suffer the same (except noise, of course).
     
  12. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

    Messages:
    13,042
    Joined:
    21 Apr 2013
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Don't think 14x are cleared to Nottingham.
     
  13. Adam0984

    Adam0984 Member

    Messages:
    513
    Joined:
    18 Feb 2014
    Correct because the the signalling beyond Chesterfield is done by axle counters and 14Xs don’t have enough lol
     
  14. leo knight

    leo knight Member

    Messages:
    9
    Joined:
    7 Sep 2018
    The most likely scenario is that the 2 car class 158s are being released for refurbishment with 2 at a time and driver training on class 158s at Heaton but I could be wrong.
     
  15. _toommm_

    _toommm_ Member

    Messages:
    743
    Joined:
    8 Jul 2017
    Location:
    Glossop
    150s are often visitors on the Notttingham route since the timetable change. The 158s are being stretched as they now go out to Lincoln too. Compounded with the driver training done on them and the 2020 PRM miss, there's not enough at the moment for them to run the services planned for them.

    Another contender is the Leeds to Man. Vic. services which I've seen use a 150 too - another uncomfortable ride no doubt.
     
  16. Geeves

    Geeves Member

    Messages:
    822
    Joined:
    6 Jan 2009
    Location:
    Rochdale
    That seems odd because all of Vic is now axle counters and it does not seem to be a problem? I guess maybe the technology is has improved which is unlucky for every where else and lucky for Nottingham!
     
  17. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

    Messages:
    13,042
    Joined:
    21 Apr 2013
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Pacers have been around far longer than the current signalling south of Chesterfield but have never been allowed further south. I think it's down to nobody ever having needed to get them cleared rather than some fundamental incompatibility. Possibly the local management of BR at the time was opposed on the grounds that the Midlands has few of the short-distance diesel services that Pacers were intended for (even if many ended up doing other things).
     
  18. route101

    route101 Established Member

    Messages:
    2,656
    Joined:
    16 May 2010
    Yeah seen an ex scotrail 158 at Lincoln other week . Had a 158 up from Nottingham , old school inside .
    150s with commuter style layout ,prefer 156
     
  19. louis97

    louis97 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,311
    Joined:
    14 May 2008
    Location:
    Derby
    I would not read anything into that post. Chesterfield station itself and the approaches from Sheffield are also fitted with axle counters. The station area and the Erewash were all resignalled with axle counters around a similar time so I can't see any issue with that particular installation. Pacers have "no published clearances" on the Erewash so it is entirely likely there has just never been any reason to clear them down there.
     
  20. Harpers Tate

    Harpers Tate Member

    Messages:
    975
    Joined:
    10 May 2013
    Axle counters: surely all the "system" has to know is how many are expected, and compare that to how many are detected. Or, to put it another way, what is the (axle counter) difference between 4x Pacer Cars and 2 x 15x cars? Or between a standard Pacer 2-set and a 153? And how could any system allow one but prevent the other.
     
  21. Skymonster

    Skymonster Member

    Messages:
    419
    Joined:
    7 Feb 2012
    Nope, the 'system' counts axles at the start and end of each section. If the number recorded at the start and end are the same, the section is empty. If it's different the section is occupied.
     
  22. Harpers Tate

    Harpers Tate Member

    Messages:
    975
    Joined:
    10 May 2013
    Sorry, wasn't clear. Expected by the end should = detected at the start is what I meant. The rest still applies.
     
  23. tommy_train

    tommy_train Member

    Messages:
    35
    Joined:
    5 Apr 2016
    That is hilarious! I actually laughed out loud and woke my partner.
    This little factoid joke will probably have me laughing next time I am on a 14x; yet another reason for people to not sit next to me on a packed service.
     
    Last edited: 13 Sep 2018
  24. Eccles1983

    Eccles1983 On Moderation

    Messages:
    262
    Joined:
    4 Sep 2016

    I have read some nonsense on here but this is the best.

    I'd never darken this place again after this utter rubbish.
     
  25. 43096

    43096 Established Member

    Messages:
    3,045
    Joined:
    23 Nov 2015
    It’s not a “factoid”, it’s a joke....
     
  26. tommy_train

    tommy_train Member

    Messages:
    35
    Joined:
    5 Apr 2016
    Edited accordingly.

    I know nothing about signalling or how track block occupancy is determined, so counting the number of wheels passing onto the track at the signal doesn't initially seem like an absurd system. Upon further consideration, the number of axles is not relevant; simply the presence of a single axle/wheel on a section of track signifies occupancy.

    I don't know how signalling is carried out, but regardless, it still made me laugh.
     
  27. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

    Messages:
    13,042
    Joined:
    21 Apr 2013
    Location:
    Nottingham
    That's exactly how an axle counter works! It needs to count the number of axles rather than simply detecting the first one, so it can confirm that the whole train has left the section.
     
  28. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

    Messages:
    2,919
    Joined:
    10 Jun 2009
    Location:
    North Wales
    In the words of a reporter during the Falklands War: "I counted them out, and I counted them all back."
     
  29. tommy_train

    tommy_train Member

    Messages:
    35
    Joined:
    5 Apr 2016
    Ah, so it counts them "on" at the start of the section of track, and then counts them "off" at the end of the section of track?
     
  30. IanXC

    IanXC Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    5,595
    Joined:
    18 Dec 2009
    Yep. As compared to a Track Circuit, which detects the presence of a train by the wheels and axles completing the circuit between the two rails.
     
  31. tommy_train

    tommy_train Member

    Messages:
    35
    Joined:
    5 Apr 2016
    Thanks!
     

Share This Page