4-SUB 4732
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Yes, they were also used on some Birmingham to Liverpool services before Cross City trains went from 4tph to 6tph.
I checked a couple of Platform 5 books, shown as 100 in 2004 & 90 in 2010.
This is not helped by the way cross-Manchester services are linked, not just Alderley Edge but Northern's plan to introduce a Leeds - Calder Valley - Liverpool service, meaning a diesel service on the Chat Moss route. Of course, if the electrification plan had been fully carried out (Victoria - Stalybridge, Lostock - Wigan and Windermere) this would have provided work for the extra units.Back on topic, it's a pleasant surprise to hear Northern plans to take on all the WMT 323s. Without platform lengthening, there doesn't appear to be enough work for them. Hopefully the Alderley Edge service goes back to EMUs following timetable revisions.
From personal knowledge it said Max speed 100 mph in the cabSurely it was a mis-print as I can't find anything about this anywhere else.
My 1999 book shows them as having 90 mph max speed.
I wonder if the 323s will actually be cheaper to operate for Northern? Being of alloy construction they should be lighter, which presumably will affect access charges and electricity consumption, and being three car I would have thought would also reduce running costs. Also, I seem to recall they were specified to have regenerative braking but I'm not sure if that was ever implemented. Does anyone know if they do regenerate and whether that reduces the electric bill for Northern?
Overall having the 323 fleet instead of the 319s might be a financial improvement for Northern as well as a better product all round for the travellers.
323s regenerate both on Northern and West Midlands routes. The West Mids units have energy meters fitted and are billed according to measured usage. I would expect 20% to 25% energy saving with regen on the commuter routes.According to a traction manual I’ve found online they do indeed regenerate. The manual is from old northern days though so whether things have changed since I have no idea.
The 319s are practically life-expired. I've personally always found the dodgy doors unwilling to open on certain carriages occasionally to be concerning when there are passengers in the carriage.I'm happy with both 319s and 323s. The 319s are a bigger unit, whatever people might say, but I think their reliability has been a disappointment. But then, so has that of the 195s..
The Manchester/Bolton trains get super packed with a 4-car 319, so will these get replaced with 6-car 323 formations, 4-car 331 formations or a mixture of the two?
It is good news that they are staying, but sums up the plight for Northern when a 20+ year old EMU staying put is noteworthy....
Not 100% this is the case on 323s so could be wrong but many units I work dont illuminate the hazard lights when the driver isnt keyed in. Seems more.plausible if it's more.often at Piccadilly that it's simply the guard gets there before the driver or the unit is left unlocked from its previous workingThis is slightly off-topic, but I've noticed on some of Northern's 323s the external hazard lights don't work, at least at Piccadilly.
I would have thought this would have been reported if it is an issue?
Not 100% this is the case on 323s so could be wrong but many units I work dont illuminate the hazard lights when the driver isnt keyed in. Seems more.plausible if it's more.often at Piccadilly that it's simply the guard gets there before the driver or the unit is left unlocked from its previous working
I am sure that TPE (former franchise) used to stop 6-car 185's at Blackrod many years ago on the 07:21 service to Manchester Airport (I believe that it skipped Adlington as the platforms weren't long enough).Salford Crescent, Bolton, Lostock, Horwich PW, Chorley and Buckshaw PW can all take six cars. Not too sure about Blackrod and Adlington.
How long until these additional 323's start to arrive at Northern?
All depends on the new 730s for west midlands turning up after testing and driver training, i'd say 2021.
There could be a provision to add a 3rd diagram to the Preston/Victoria stopper with stops included at Kearsley/Farnworth/Moses Gate, which would provide 2tph for those stations.
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There could be a provision to add a 3rd diagram to the Preston/Victoria stopper with stops included at Kearsley/Farnworth/Moses Gate, which would provide 2tph for those stations.
Three diagrams on a two-hour round trip - wouldn't that give you a train every 40 minutes?
That would be a good idea if particularly if it was all stops Preston to Victoria which could interwork with the current Preston to Victoria all stops Bolton to Preston to increase reliability as the current short turnaround time at Victoria and Preston is not working with trains constantly having intermediate stops cancelled to catch up leaving 2-hour gaps between trains at Blackrod and Adlington.
A few years yet thats all I know from other forum usersHow long until these additional 323's start to arrive at Northern?
That would be a good idea if particularly if it was all stops Preston to Victoria which could interwork with the current Preston to Victoria all stops Bolton to Preston to increase reliability as the current short turnaround time at Victoria and Preston is not working with trains constantly having intermediate stops cancelled to catch up leaving 2-hour gaps between trains at Blackrod and Adlington.