Northern Advance fares purchased on the day of travel

[Paul Duck]

Evening all. Some amazing news in that Northern advance tickets for travel on the day will be available from ticket offices next month. This is down to some amazing work by some of my amazing colleagues putting serious pressure on Northern to reverse its decision a couple of years ago to take these tickets away from ticket offices. Some damage may have already be done in terms of lost sales but it starts us all back on a level playing field.

 

[transportphoto]

A naive question perhaps, but who do you and your colleagues represent? Are you Northern staff who have been pressuring your own company?

 

[Paul Duck]

A naive question perhaps, but who do you and your colleagues represent? Are you Northern staff who have been pressuring your own company?

TPE staff and RMT members.
I'm sure staff at other tocs will have echoed the same thoughts on Northern APOD removals last year.

 

[Lewisham2221]

TPE staff and RMT members.
I'm sure staff at other tocs will have echoed the same thoughts on Northern APOD removals last year.

Presumably so that you can get the commission on the new ticket that you'll sell them, when they buy a cheap Northern advance for about £3.50 and then inevitably board the first (non-Northern) train that turns up? I can't think of any other reason why staff from other operators would feel positively about this!

 

[Paul Duck]

Presumably so that you can get the commission on the new ticket that you'll sell them, when they buy a cheap Northern advance for about £3.50 and then inevitably board the first (non-Northern) train that turns up? I can't think of any other reason why staff from other operators would feel positively about this!

I'm sorry you feel this way. We are talking about ticket offices so no commission is made sorry.
It takes away the abuse we get for not being able to retail a ticket that the passenger can see on their phone but can only pay cash. Which is a good amount of people on Teesside. Also them people who want to support their local ticket offices but we're forced to buy their tickets elsewhere.
We were told APODS would be completely removed by northern towards the end of last year and they didn't. Only introducing more in the past month.
At the end of the day we want a level playing field with on line, especially 3rd part ones which cause us all the most problems. They are the ones taking commission and in the end money out of the railway industry that should really stay in it.

 

[Haywain]

At the end of the day we want a level playing field with on line, especially 3rd part ones which cause us all the most problems. They are the ones taking commission and in the end money out of the railway industry that should really stay in it.

Whether you like it or not, third party retailers are very much part of the industry and are where a high proportion of rail users choose to buy their tickets. In providing such services they bring enormous amounts of money into the rail industry.

 

[Lewisham2221]

I'm sorry you feel this way. We are talking about ticket offices so no commission is made sorry.
It takes away the abuse we get for not being able to retail a ticket that the passenger can see on their phone but can only pay cash. Which is a good amount of people on Teesside. Also them people who want to support their local ticket offices but we're forced to buy their tickets elsewhere.
We were told APODS would be completely removed by northern towards the end of last year and they didn't. Only introducing more in the past month.
At the end of the day we want a level playing field with on line, especially 3rd part ones which cause us all the most problems. They are the ones taking commission and in the end money out of the railway industry that should really stay in it.

I see. I was talking from the point of guards on other TOCs who are constantly having to battle with people who have purchased cheap Northern APODs, then just jump on any train with it and can't understand why they are then being told their ticket is not valid and they need to pay maybe 5x more for a new ticket.

Scrapping APOD and returning to the point where AP need to be purchased the day before would probably make things clearer.

As for 3rd party retailers, like it or not, they are very much a part of the railway industry now.

 

[redreni]

Great news. It was a ridiculous restriction and I would have thought any rail worker in any role ought to be able to see it was part of a wider de-staffing strategy, so not good for anyone.

When DfT effectively owns and runs the TOC and is having to fund ticket offices, they might as well let them sell tickets rather than pay a third party to do it online. Selling tickets isn't the only reason they're there by any means, but it is, if you think about it, generally considered to be within their remit.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

I'm sorry you feel this way. We are talking about ticket offices so no commission is made sorry.
It takes away the abuse we get for not being able to retail a ticket that the passenger can see on their phone but can only pay cash. Which is a good amount of people on Teesside. Also them people who want to support their local ticket offices but we're forced to buy their tickets elsewhere.
We were told APODS would be completely removed by northern towards the end of last year and they didn't. Only introducing more in the past month.
At the end of the day we want a level playing field with on line, especially 3rd part ones which cause us all the most problems. They are the ones taking commission and in the end money out of the railway industry that should really stay in it.

You as a ticket office clerk might not be making any commission personally, but your TOC as the retailer is taking their slice of each sale, whether they pass it on to you or not. That's before the revenue is divided up depending on whatever agreements/settlements are in place for a particular flow/product.

It's still not really a level playing field, as the likes of Trainpal will generally offer a 2-4% discount (essentially funding it from their own commission) and/or other retailers have cashback/loyalty reward schemes that make it more attractive to book directly.

It's also much more difficult (and can be more expensive unless a clerk waives the admin fee) trying to amend/alter ticket office issued Advances, and there's a serious issue in that (for non APOD Advances) that when timetables change etc, there is no notification to customers.

I don't think it's sustainable for ticket offices or TVMs to sell Advance fares without capturing customer information in the future. I'd expect ORR to eventually get to grips with this. There's real issues whether the current process can be said to be truly compliant with consumer legislation.

Personally, I think good on you guys for making the effort, but the horse has bolted and is so far ahead, it's practically at the glue factory doors.

 

[mikeg]

I agree like it or not 3rd party retailers are part of the railway - at least in its present form. However this feels like a step forward, it seems wrong that journey planner TVMs and websites could sell advances on the day but ticket offices could not. I also think it's wrong that advances on the day are required in many ways to get a cheap journey, if they're persistently at a given cheaper level the railway in reality has the capacity to offer the walk-up tickets for not much more at all. Sometimes the difference can be quite staggering and there seems to be little in it from a yield management point of view.

I see. I was talking from the point of guards on other TOCs who are constantly having to battle with people who have purchased cheap Northern APODs, then just jump on any train with it and can't understand why they are then being told their ticket is not valid and they need to pay maybe 5x more for a new ticket.

Scrapping APOD and returning to the point where AP need to be purchased the day before would probably make things clearer.

As for 3rd party retailers, like it or not, they are very much a part of the railway industry now.

Indeed my point, though I can't help but think that at ticket office would actually be better at explaining such restrictions than an app. Or at least that's the way it should be. In my experience, with a few exceptions, TPE ticket offices have generally been quite good. Interestingly the Latvian railways had a solution to this problem when I was last there. All tickets were walk up, but some trains had a discount on a given day, from what I heard you were allowed to use your ticket on any train with the same discount level. Note that it was changed daily, rather than being quota controlled but still enabled a level of yield management while giving the passenger some flexibility. How true this was precisely I'm not sure but having bought such a ticket it did indeed show the price level and not the departure time. Perhaps a topic for another thread but better than Advance Purchase on the Day for regional routes.

 

[Hadders]

Personally, I don't believe Advance tickets should only be available on long distance inter-city style operators but I am pleased that, if they are going to remain, they are available through all retail channels.

They are the ones taking commission and in the end money out of the railway industry that should really stay in it.

I don't agree with this. If this is the case why do most Train Companies use 3rd party retailers to operate their online ticket retailing sites rather than doing things themselves?

3rd party retailers do receive comission of up to 5% on the tickets they sell but most of this goes back into the rail industry or is spent on unavoidable costs that the rail industry would have to pay if train operators were selling tickets themselves.

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[AY1975]

Are Northern Advance tickets bought on the day of travel already available through ticket vending machines or only through digital sales channels?

I presume they will only be available at Northern ticket offices and vending machines, not those of other operators at stations served by Northern.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are Northern Advance tickets bought on the day of travel already available through ticket vending machines or only through digital sales channels?

I presume they will only be available at Northern ticket offices and vending machines, not those of other operators at stations served by Northern.

They should (following a recent change to make them available at booking offices again) be available at any planner-based sales channel. Whether other TOCs' TVMs sell them will depend on if they're planner-based.

 

[jfollows]

Evening all. Some amazing news in that Northern advance tickets for travel on the day will be available from ticket offices next month. This is down to some amazing work by some of my amazing colleagues putting serious pressure on Northern to reverse its decision a couple of years ago to take these tickets away from ticket offices. Some damage may have already be done in terms of lost sales but it starts us all back on a level playing field.

Good news, thanks you for this.
I have used these tickets but I like having the option to buy from the ticket office. Having a situation where the cheapest tickets are only available elsewhere always struck me as silly.

 

[TUC]

I see. I was talking from the point of guards on other TOCs who are constantly having to battle with people who have purchased cheap Northern APODs, then just jump on any train with it and can't understand why they are then being told their ticket is not valid and they need to pay maybe 5x more for a new ticket.

Scrapping APOD and returning to the point where AP need to be purchased the day before would probably make things clearer.

As for 3rd party retailers, like it or not, they are very much a part of the railway industry now.

Isn't their stupidity/cheating their own fault?

 

[Wallsendmag]

I've heard that TPE are following Northern and removing their APOD from ticket offices, maybe the resolution wasn't the way it was expected to be.

 

[317 forever]

I had an email the other day saying that Northern Advance Purchases would in some cases be available up until 15 minutes prior to travel, from Monday November 4th.