Northern Advance Purchase tickets update from Monday 4 November (purchase up to 15 minutes prior to departure rather than 5)

[johntea]

Just had an email from Northern...

From Monday 4 November, Advance Purchase tickets will be available to purchase up to 15 minutes prior to the train's departure.

Advance Purchase tickets are available on the Northern website, Northern app, at our ticket offices and from ticket vending machines in stations.

For some customers this may be a change as Advance Purchase tickets have previously been available up to 5 minutes before departure time on the app and website only. Please note Anytime tickets will remain available to purchase, up to immediately before travel.

Although I'm sure I've tried around 5 minutes before departure in the past myself a couple of times and it never actually worked!

 

[gray1404]

Does this change apply to all TOCs or just Northern?

 

[Wallsendmag]

Does this change apply to all TOCs or just Northern?

Just Northern I would think

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is a very strange policy when Northern are so invested in an LNER llke policy of "Advances for everything". I wonder what the reasoning was? Possibly to reduce the number purchased from booking offices and TVMs so reduced provision can be justified, as few will be willing to get to the station 15 minutes before a local train?

 

[mike57]

Last time I bought an advance close to departure, I was walking back to Hull station, got to the station about 10mins before the train and bought it on my phone, saved around £3 on the normal railcard single fare. What percentage of people current use TVMs/Booking offices v eticket to their phone, as if you are on the way to the station you will just use your phone a bit earlier. I got the same email this morning and I just assumed it was to try and increase fare take.

 

[TUC]

This is a very strange policy when Northern are so invested in an LNER llke policy of "Advances for everything". I wonder what the reasoning was? Possibly to reduce the number purchased from booking offices and TVMs so reduced provision can be justified, as few will be willing to get to the station 15 minutes before a local train?

Who would go to a station to purchase an Advance for a same day journey. Even if unplanned, buy it on your phone on the way.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Who would go to a station to purchase an Advance for a same day journey. Even if unplanned, buy it on your phone on the way.

Not everyone wants to buy on their mobile device some people like the interaction with humans

 

[JonathanH]

This is a very strange policy when Northern are so invested in an LNER llke policy of "Advances for everything". I wonder what the reasoning was? Possibly to reduce the number purchased from booking offices and TVMs so reduced provision can be justified, as few will be willing to get to the station 15 minutes before a local train?

It would also somewhat preclude a move to a LNER type pricing strategy (eg advance plus anytime with no off-peak walk up fare) outside the metropolitan areas, unless there genuinely was intended to be a penalty for not turning up 15 minutes before the train leaves.

 

[xotGD]

Who would go to a station to purchase an Advance for a same day journey. Even if unplanned, buy it on your phone on the way.

Not everyone owns a smart phone.

Those without should have the same opportunity to buy an Advance as those with.

 

[Haywain]

Not everyone owns a smart phone.

Those without should have the same opportunity to buy an Advance as those with.

They do have the same opportunity, just with less convenience.

 

[30907]

Slightly OT, but neither the mail nor the pages linked from it point out that an Advance ticket is train-specific. Such a fundamental fact ought not to be hidden in the small print (though I know it is flagged up in the actual purchase).

I have raised a query with their customer services (enquiries@...) and await a reply...

 

[TUC]

On the way home from London yesterday, whilst on the train to Leeds I still needed to purchase my ticket from there to Halifax. I went on the app and found that the train 10 minutes after my arrival in Leeds had an Advance fare (with a railcard) of £2.10 available rather than the £4.10 flexible fare. Of course I bought it. Not sure what the objection is of some to having on the day Advances available?

 

[Solent&Wessex]

The cynical part of me suggests this will lead to an increase in people turning up last minute, seeing the next train in 3 minutes is £6, but the one after is £3, and then end up buying Advance tickets for the second train and then catching the first train. And then getting a Penalty Fare.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

No idea why they've done this - although I do find it suspicious that just a short while after a fellow forum member working in a ticket office posted that they'd strong-armed Northern into permitting ticket office sales of these fares, that this restriction comes in. It could just be a coincidence, but this is an odd decision.

I wonder if they anticipate that the issuing of these tickets by clerks can take longer than non AP fares, and that's somehow related, means customers need to turn up a bit earlier before travelling.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No idea why they've done this - although I do find it suspicious that just a short while after a fellow forum member working in a ticket office posted that they'd strong-armed Northern into permitting ticket office sales of these fares, that this restriction comes in. It could just be a coincidence, but this is an odd decision.

My incllination is to think that it is indeed to discourage sales of these tickets from booking offices, because most people won't turn up more than 15 minutes before a local journey. But allowing them from TVMs nearer to departure but not booking offices would look like the previous decision and so look bad.

Might also be that people are buying them, missing trains then abusing staff that they have an unusable ticket, perhaps? You could get them near enough right up to departure before (I've certainly bought one with the train visible on approach to the platform), which somewhere like Manchester Piccadilly would be unachievable, and presumably it's too complex to have different cut-offs for different stations.

 

[wilbers]

Might also be that people are buying them, missing trains then abusing staff that they have an unusable ticket, perhaps? You could get them near enough right up to departure before (I've certainly bought one with the train visible on approach to the platform), which somewhere like Manchester Piccadilly would be unachievable, and presumably it's too complex to have different cut-offs for different stations.

Fair point, but that could also be done by not having the cut-off time at 5 or 15 minutes, but at whatever the maximum interchange time is at a station served by Northern (which probably is Piccadilly, or if not then Leeds).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Fair point, but that could also be done by not having the cut-off time at 5 or 15 minutes, but at whatever the maximum interchange time is at a station served by Northern (which probably is Piccadilly, or if not then Leeds).

Piccadilly is 10 (thought it was 15), that might be more reasonable. Leeds is 10 as well.

 

[Haywain]

at whatever the maximum interchange time is at a station served by Northern

What has the interchange time got to do with buying tickets?

 

[Bletchleyite]

What has the interchange time got to do with buying tickets?

It might be representative of the amount of time one might take to get from the booking office to the most distant platform? Northern's Advances could previously be bought right up to departure, I don't know why they are saying it was 5 minutes, it wasn't. You could buy one at the booking office at Manchester Piccadilly with no hope of reaching the train it was for.

 

[wilbers]

if they are bought at the front of the station (i.e. ticket office or TVM) and the train is departing from the furthest platform from there.

 

[Haywain]

It might be representative of the amount of time one might take to get from the booking office to the most distant platform?

OK, but the interchange times are set on the basis of being appropriate for someone already in possession of a ticket and on the paid side of the ticket barriers. At Leeds or Manchester Piccadilly the 10 minutes could easily be shrinking to 5 by the time the customer has got round to completing the purchase and is ready to make their way to the station.

 

[fandroid]

Those without smartphones could buy their Advance on a desktop/laptop at home and print the ticket at the station. Most journeys are not planned at the absolute last minute.

After all, that was the traditional way of buying them!

 

[Kite159]

Those without smartphones could buy their Advance on a desktop/laptop at home and print the ticket at the station. Most journeys are not planned at the absolute last minute.

After all, that was the traditional way of buying them!

Most long distance journeys are not last minute decisions, but for a commuter railway with effectively a "turn up and go" level of service with multiple options an hour (using Leeds to Halifax as an example). You might know what time you are planning to depart to head towards the 'big city' but the return time could be based on a wide range of factors. Heck you could even book a ticket for Halifax from Leeds and when you get to the train you find it's short formed (say a 2 coach 195 instead of a pair) and is massively overcrowded so where you can board it won't be that comfortable. Holders of flexible tickets can simply board the next train [say a Halifax terminator from Hull] where they might get a seat.

 

[TUC]

Most long distance journeys are not last minute decisions, but for a commuter railway with effectively a "turn up and go" level of service with multiple options an hour (using Leeds to Halifax as an example). You might know what time you are planning to depart to head towards the 'big city' but the return time could be based on a wide range of factors. Heck you could even book a ticket for Halifax from Leeds and when you get to the train you find it's short formed (say a 2 coach 195 instead of a pair) and is massively overcrowded so where you can board it won't be that comfortable. Holders of flexible tickets can simply board the next train [say a Halifax terminator from Hull] where they might get a seat.

But many of us would rather take our chances and get a cheap Advance.

 

[nwales58]

... I don't know why they are saying it was 5 minutes, it wasn't.

I pressed 'buy' on Trainsplit at departure minus 2 the other day.

What is confusing for the general public is buying a ticket on a route such as Manchester Piccadilly to the airport. A different price for every train but if you miss the one you've picked (not knowing how long it takes to get to platform 13, or barrier mayhem at the airport) you've lost your money.

That's some kind of game, a buzz of excitement at saving 20p or over a pound followed by the shock of having to pay again plus entering the next game of penalty fare or threat of (possibly wrongful) prosecution.

Scrapping advances in the next 15-60 minutes would avoid that.

Industry managers: explain why anyone thinks this verneer of competition is good for rail users please.

 

[Hadders]

My view is Advance fares should only be for long distance inter-city style journeys. They are unsuitable for inner suburban, suburban and regional style services.

These sort of Advance fares just cause confusion for staff and passengers.

 

[John R]

My view is Advance fares should only be for long distance inter-city style journeys. They are unsuitable for inner suburban, suburban and regional style services.

These sort of Advance fares just cause confusion for staff and passengers.

I totally agree. And calling a ticket Advance when it could be purchased up to 5 minutes before departure is a nonsense too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My view is Advance fares should only be for long distance inter-city style journeys. They are unsuitable for inner suburban, suburban and regional style services.

These sort of Advance fares just cause confusion for staff and passengers.

The old situation where you could only buy one if you could reserve an actual seat dealt with it quite well. It's counted places that have made a mess of it.

 

[janb]

Who would go to a station to purchase an Advance for a same day journey. Even if unplanned, buy it on your phone on the way.

People who want to pay by cash. More common than this forum would think, at least in my area of the country.

 

[xotGD]

My view is Advance fares should only be for long distance inter-city style journeys. They are unsuitable for inner suburban, suburban and regional style services.

These sort of Advance fares just cause confusion for staff and passengers.

I completely disagree. I save several pounds every time I commute into Leeds.

And as for 5 minutes versus 15 minutes, I usually buy mine a week or two ahead of time to get a better price. Occasionally my plans have changed and I have been left with an unusable ticket, but the cost of this is greatly outweighed by the savings.