Northern booking office - offering more expensive tickets than they ought to

[Baxenden Bank]

Been on my jollies to the Yorkshire Dales.

Last week I followed Forum advice and tried to buy from a (Northern) ticket office - the source of impartial advice, more accurate than TVM's, keep the ticket office open, staff employed etc.

I was offered Anytime Day Returns (SDR) rather than Off-Peak Day Returns (CDR) and it took some effort to persuade the staff members to check and, yes indeed, the CDR is (now) valid at that time for that journey.

"Nobody has told us" - fair enough, can't sit there every day just looking if ticket prices have changed, but they did over-ride their own machine which first came up with the CDR fare to instead offer me the SDR fare. A case of 'I know better than the technology', or not as the case appears to be.

Had I not checked in advance of my holiday I would have simply paid the higher amount requested assuming that the ticket office was offering me the best value ticket!

The flows in question are Bradford (Yorks) to Gargrave and stations beyond to Carlisle. The restriction was previously 'any train after 0929' but is now 'any train after 0859'. This creates a discrepancy as fares as far as Skipton remain 'after 0929'.

Does anybody have access recent historical fare data to determine when this change came into force - at the May timetable change or some point between then and last week?

I don't necessarily blame the ticket office staff for this as it appears to be a recent change but there is clearly some kind of communication breakdown. How many people have been charged the higher peak fare erroneously?

As an aside, the TVM on the concourse automatically offered the CDR (at 0850). Perhaps I should stick to TVM's in future. The barriers refused to let me through - not valid at that time.

 

[30907]

The change logically should have happened in May to permit the use of the 0919 off Leeds, to avoid disadvantaging people who would previously have used the 094x. Whether it did I wouldn't know. The restriction for Skipton and short thereof didn't need to change.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The price difference is all of £1.40!

Should there be any differential on Metropolitan area to rural area fares apart form in the weekday evening peak anyway?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The price difference is all of £1.40!

Should there be any differential on Metropolitan area to rural area fares apart form in the weekday evening peak anyway?

More than £1.40 if you travel further, but the amount is not relevant. If you were to underpay by £1.40 by using an off-peak ticket at peak times would a rail company be happy to let it go unchallenged?

I'll use my B & Q argument when they tried to overcharge me.
Assistant: It's only 23p.
Customer: Well, if 23p is such a small amount, knock 23p of every item in the store. Then let me know what the finance directors response is!

Alternatively, add 5p to every rail ticket sold tomorrow and drop the total into my bank account. I won't object to getting rich quick.

 

[yorkie]

The price difference is all of £1.40!

Are you suggesting that you consider a £1.40 overcharge to be acceptable?

Should there be any differential on Metropolitan area to rural area fares apart form in the weekday evening peak anyway?

I don't really understand what you are saying here or what relevance it has to the matter in hand.

 

[pemma]

The price difference is all of £1.40!

Yet the operator sees passengers travelling beyond the destination on their ticket as a criminal offence, even if the fare is only underpaid by 10p.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Are you suggesting that you consider a £1.40 overcharge to be acceptable?


I don't really understand what you are saying here or what relevance it has to the matter in hand.

What I'm saying is should there be peak pricing on journeys that are contra peak flow?

Ok in this instance flows on one train beyond a suburban service start point have been exempted but how many people are rocking up at Bradford to head out of it on weekdays before 0930?

 

[Kite159]

Yet the operator sees passengers travelling beyond the destination on their ticket as a criminal offence, even if the fare is only underpaid by 10p.

Or even if the fare is the same I seem to recall

 

[Bletchleyite]

The price difference is all of £1.40!

It doesn't matter if it's £0.01[1]. The correct ticket should be sold for the journey, and staff should do their job properly in checking the system each time rather than being lazy and making assumptions. By all means offer to up-sell - "you can come back in the peak for only £1.40 more?" - but if you are going to do that you need to do it very clearly.

Yet another ticket office which is actively promoting its own closure, then.

[1] £0.05 in a railway sense

 

[Gareth Marston]

It doesn't matter if it's £0.01[1]. The correct ticket should be sold for the journey, and staff should do their job properly in checking the system each time rather than being lazy and making assumptions. By all means offer to up-sell - "you can come back in the peak for only £1.40 more?" - but if you are going to do that you need to do it very clearly.

Yet another ticket office which is actively promoting its own closure, then.

[1] £0.05 in a railway sense

Funny how everyone has assumed that I'm insinuating that the OP should pay the £1.40 whereas I'm merely pointing out the ridiculously small differential between the SDR and CDR that hardly seems worth all the confusion about validity.

Given everything else going on with Northern at the moment I suspect not notifying staff about a minor change to a minor flow they will probably sell very very few tickets for is perhaps regrettably understandable - its gone down a crack somewhere with everything else going on. When I saw the thread title I thought it was perhaps something more major. If Bradford Booking Office were doing this on flows to say Leeds then it would be a major issue. Look at the OP's original post the staff at Bradford did look it up on Journey Planner for the OP.

The whole system is over complex and this example illustrates why reform is needed.

 

[janb]

The flows in question are Bradford (Yorks) to Gargrave and stations beyond to Carlisle. The restriction was previously 'any train after 0929' but is now 'any train after 0859'. This creates a discrepancy as fares as far as Skipton remain 'after 0929'.

Does anybody have access recent historical fare data to determine when this change came into force - at the May timetable change or some point between then and last week?

20th May 2018.

 

[sheff1]

If someone knows the correct fare for the journey they want to make, then buying online or from a TVM is, in my view, always the best option.

I was speaking to someone recently who was charged £16.80 by a booking office for a journey for which the correct fare was £9. Naturally, now they know the correct fare, they will be buying from the TVM in future.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

20th May 2018.

Thank you.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

If someone knows the correct fare for the journey they want to make, then buying online or from a TVM is, in my view, always the best option.

I was speaking to someone recently who was charged £16.80 by a booking office for a journey for which the correct fare was £9. Naturally, now they know the correct fare, they will be buying from the TVM in future.

Generally, I do tend to buy on-line ahead of travel and collect at some point. That works well for 'to and from' holiday travel because the days are fixed. Travel whilst away I tend to prefer flexibility to allow for poor weather - no point buying a return to Ribblehead in advance if it is absolutely pouring down on the day (not that it ever does in Yorkshire, cough). I could have used the TVM but some don't offer off-peak tickets until just before the off-peak time kicks in so I thought I'd keep people in a job and use the ticket office!

 

[Baxenden Bank]

It doesn't matter if it's £0.01[1]. The correct ticket should be sold for the journey, and staff should do their job properly in checking the system each time rather than being lazy and making assumptions. By all means offer to up-sell - "you can come back in the peak for only £1.40 more?" - but if you are going to do that you need to do it very clearly.

Yet another ticket office which is actively promoting its own closure, then.

[1] £0.05 in a railway sense

Ah, now that is another story.

Off-peak return to Skipton - valid from 0929 and with afternoon restrictions. Off-peak to Gargrave (next station along) valid from 0859 and with no afternoon restrictions. Pay 20p more, travel earlier, stop short. Come back when you like by starting late.

Simpler Fares that anyone can understand!