Northern cancellations creeping up again?

[waterboo]

With respect to the staffing issue - it's not a new revelation that Northern is perceived as a 'starter TOC' in a similar fashion to Ryanair being a starter airline for many crews. Indeed, Northern have expressed this point in previous digital recruitment campaigns.
So with this knowledge and hindsight, they should be well prepared to deal with a high attrition rate, by being continually proactive with recruitment and training, and fleshing out all the efficiencies that can be made in getting operational staff productive as soon as possible.

But again, i would wage that successive directors have pushed the can for somebody else to deal with.

 

[BPN2022]

awful service on Blackpool North branch on Sundays recently. Hourly last weekend, and hourly ish today with some 2 hour gaps.

 

[muz379]

I think there is a particular problem at Piccadilly for conductors with managers setting unrealistic revenue targets far higher than other depots and looking for every possible fault. The conductors are treated like school children.

There is very little by way reward and everything Serco Abellio did such as Christmas vouchers, fun days etc has gone, wages haven't kept up with inflation. Diagrams are regularly altered (not in the conductors favour), plus there's all the fallout from passengers over the state of the current service. I have heard around 15 will be leaving before the end of the year so things will get worse.

Why would someone get up at 2.30am or get home at a similar time to get abuse all day and hassle of managers who don't value them, when they can earn similar doing many other jobs? Especially when you take into account a car is pretty essential for most for the shift times.

You are always going to struggle in a big city like Manchester anyway with countless employment opportunities , but then you have several other TOC's at Manchester Picadilly for people that want to stay in the industry .

I don't think the guards wage at Northern has particularly kept pace with growth outside the industry , in a big city like Manchester its not difficult to find a job paying similar money which requires similar level of education/skills , without the extreme shift work or safety critical responsibility .

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I think that Northern needs to face reality and adjust the base timetable to match the number of train crew it can reasonably expect to be available for work. I don't mean fiddling around for a few weeks like XC; I mean change the permanent timetable like TPE did and keep it at that level until more crew have been recruited and trained. Remaining services should be booked for the maximum length that the fleet and platform lengths can cope with.

Unfortunately this is the only solution and given they've consented other operators to do this you have to wonder why the same sticking plaster hasn't been applied here whilst they fix the issue.

 

[jonnyfan]

Only 1 pre-planned cancellation showing on Northern's journeycheck page for tomorrow (caused by displaced rolling stock due to today's crew shortages). The new Rest Day Working agreement for drivers is now in place, so a fair reduction in cancellations can be expected this week. Hopefully the RDW agreement will get full approval this week to keep it in place beyond this week. Let's see!

 

[northernchris]

At some point very soon, DOHL are going to have acknowledge that Tricia Williams is not the right person for the job.

We can only hope. She didn't come across well at all in the Transport for the North meeting last week with both Andy Burnham and Tracy Brabin calling her out for not understanding the severity of the impact of the current service. I do remember her saying mental health was the biggest area of sickness currently, and wonder how much of this is caused by the management. It can't be a nice environment to work in with so many frustrated passengers being crammed in to 2 carriage trains following a succession of cancellations.

With a number of sporting events in Leeds and Bradford today, Northern chose or were forced to put just a 2-car set on the 1028 from Chester. This led to serious overcrowding which led to door problems which the driver had to rectify at Todmorden. Was the 2-car set due to lack of stock or lack of forethought?

Interesting, I was at Halifax at the time this service was due and the screens were showing the delay as due to overcrowding because of a football match. Another example of Northern's contempt for passengers, it's not Northern's fault for shortforming the service but the passengers fault for wanting to travel.

 

[175001]

Only 1 pre-planned cancellation showing on Northern's journeycheck page for tomorrow (caused by displaced rolling stock due to today's crew shortages). The new Rest Day Working agreement for drivers is now in place, so a fair reduction in cancellations can be expected this week. Hopefully the RDW agreement will get full approval this week to keep it in place beyond this week. Let's see!

All well and good having all the drivers jobs covered but when there is still an acute shortage of available conductors, it means nothing..

Plenty already cancelled due to "member of train crew being unavailable" this morning. This'll be no conductor.

 

[yorksrob]

Another Monday and another cancellation on the Hallam line.

I hope it's not going to be another one of those weeks !

 

[Jamesrob637]

Possibly one for a new thread, but Northern's Twitter team are less than useless at replying to meaningful messages from genuinely concerned travellers, much more so than in the past. Maybe they're suffering from staff shortages too?!

 

[slipdigby]

Possibly one for a new thread, but Northern's Twitter team are less than useless at replying to meaningful messages from genuinely concerned travellers, much more so than in the past. Maybe they're suffering from staff shortages too?!

There's a real malaise from top to bottom unfortunately, everything from Delay repay through comms to frontline ops. People are fed up meaning quite a few of the old(er) heads have moved on to pastures new. There's a lot of work required to turn the organisation around culturally which isn't helped by the inability to even deliver the day to day properly.

 

[40fan]

Northern is definately getting worse. Each time I use Northern trains I expect a cancellation. I put in a claim for a delay caused by a cancelled train two months ago. They refused my claim insisting that the train ran on time.

On 30th October I was delayed on a journey from York to Sheffield, because Northern cancelled the 1508 Leeds to Sheffield train.

 

[Killingworth]

Possibly one for a new thread, but Northern's Twitter team are less than useless at replying to meaningful messages from genuinely concerned travellers, much more so than in the past. Maybe they're suffering from staff shortages too?!

If you've ever had to work in a call/service centre type environment you'll know the levels of abuse experienced even when things are going smoothly. People can fly off the handle much more easily over the phone or on a keyboard.

When they aren't going well it doesn't take long for abused staff to fly to another similar job with less stress. Some will just walk straight out and never return. Taking whole day's of constant abuse for things you've no way of controlling (and quite probably not understanding from the systems available) is incredibly sapping of anyone's patience. It's a minor miracle there's anyone left. And that's the truth.

 

[43066]

I do remember her saying mental health was the biggest area of sickness currently,

No surprise there.

It is a bit of a hidden epidemic on the railway for various reasons; extreme shift work, fatigue, then as you say a long period of staff being subjected to abuse (a lot more of that around post Covid), a demoralising industrial dispute, vilification by certain politicians and parts of the press etc. That’s on top of the all the usual cost of living pressures.

Northern will of course be particularly affected due to their “issues” - I seem to remember TPE had same during their period of severe unreliability.

 

[LYuen]

Unfortunately there are many completely customer unfocused staff in the rail industry. The real world of 2024 looks aghast.

I think the government are really losing their patience with Northern and unlike the previous 14 years omnishambles are going to kick them where it hurts.

And what now? Northern is already DfT run OLR.
Let Transport for the North to run them instead?

 

[Halwynd]

And what now? Northern is already DfT run OLR.
Let Transport for the North to run them instead?

It's not the ownership that's the problem.

Chris Green was an effective and successful manager at nationalised Scotrail, Network South East and Intercity - as well as at privatised Virgin Trains where he took the helm after a dismal performance under his predecessor, Brian Barnett.

Problem is, there are no Chris Green's running the passenger railway today.

 

[Howardh]

Fingers crossed for tonight, doesn't look at all bad at the moment; intending to do Bolton - Stalybridge - Manchester V or P then back to Bolton. Probably spend more time staring at my phone than my pint!

Looking right now for the next couple of hours, only the Bolton/Barrow 1608 train cancelled, and the majority running on time. They look a completely different company to the last two weeks.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Fingers crossed for tonight, doesn't look at all bad at the moment; intending to do Bolton - Stalybridge - Manchester V or P then back to Bolton. Probably spend more time staring at my phone than my pint!

Looking right now for the next couple of hours, only the Bolton/Barrow 1608 train cancelled, and the majority running on time. They look a completely different company to the last two weeks.

Not in South Yorkshire! Still many cancelled trains today.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Check out the Piccadilly—Crewe line today; it's littered with short-notice cancellations due to a crew shortage.

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

Exactly! 2 in a row cancelled via Styal Northbound but not southbound!
Was better before the RDW issue resolved

 

[ServerHoster]

Exactly! 2 in a row cancelled via Styal Northbound but not southbound!
Was better before the RDW issue resolved

Make that 3 in a row with the 16:16, 17:16 and 18:16 from Crewe.

Southbound via Stockport, the 15:06, 16:06 and 17:06 from Piccadilly are cancelled, these are the outbound services that then form the return services above. (the 15:36 and 16:36 are calling additionally at Goostrey and Chelford. not sure about the 17:36 but it probably will too.)
Southbound via Styal, the 18:36 is also cancelled.
Northbound via Stockport, 19:46 is also cancelled. This morning there were also 2 consecutive cancellations, the 07:46 and 08:46.

Elsewhere, the Mid-Cheshire line is getting 2 consecutive cancellations (20:09 and 21:10 from Piccadilly / 21:56 and 22:56 from Chester).

And Hadfield is getting a few round trips cancelled: 17:03, 18:02, 19:33, 21:03, 21:33 from Piccadilly.

 

[jonnyfan]

Piccadilly is having a mere this afternoon and this evening, mostly down to shortage of conductors, around 13 short today! The rest of the week is looking better though.

 

[trainophile]

Sometimes they put not only the remainder of the current day but also the following day's cancellation up quite early in the day, which is a huge help if you've got a journey tomorrow. Today however they are still only showing up to midnight. Wish they'd get a move on!

 

[frodshamfella]

I don't use services of Northern but when I pass through Lime Street Station there frequently seems to be cancellations by Northern.

 

[ricoblade]

I use the Doncaster to Sheffield Northern service at least once a week. This is supposed to be to/from Scarborough but often starts/terminates at Hull and last week started at Doncaster. The Doncaster<>Sheffield service for me has been very reliable (touch wood for tomorrow!).

 

[LokiB]

The ORR data portal is useful for validating this assertion.

Northern Train Key Statistics 2023/2024

Passenger Train Km operated (millions)
2019-2020 = 56.4
2023-2024 = 49.3
Change = (-12.6%)

Headcount (FTE)
31 March 2020 = 6,351
31 March 2024 = 6,957
Change = 9.5%

9.5% more staff, to perform 12.6% less activity, is a difficult set of figures to pass off as chronically understaffed!

You do realise all 6957 are not traincrew yeah? I'd hazard an educated guess that the 9.5% more staff you are referring to are backroom and thus don't effect the operational running of the trains.
Believe it or not the traincrew are chronically understaffed so if the current ones don't volunteer for RDW the trains don't run and to be honest, with the attitude/abuse they receive from people like yourself I don't blame them for not doing it.

 

[Phil56]

awful service on Blackpool North branch on Sundays recently. Hourly last weekend, and hourly ish today with some 2 hour gaps.

Not as bad as the Leeds<>Morecambe service via the Bentham line. When one gets cancelled (far too often), as it's only a two hourly service, there's a four hour gap. Even worse when it's the last of the day which from Leeds is already a stupidly early 7.25.

 

[Killingworth]

Whatever may have happened this week credit where It’s due. Yesterday was the 3rd consecutive day with no cancelled trains on the Hope Valley line. All good since Monday when 3 return services failed to run. After days with random cancellations of a third to half of all trains trains this is a very welcome surprise.

Is this dramatic improvement being replicated on other lines? Will it last over the weekend?

 

[skyhigh]

Whatever may have happened this week credit where It’s due. Yesterday was the 3rd consecutive day with no cancelled trains on the Hope Valley line. All good since Monday when 3 return services failed to run. After days with random cancellations of a third to half of all trains trains this is a very welcome surprise.

Driver rest day agreement has come in.

Will it last over the weekend?

The problem with Sunday has always been Conductors, so the driver agreement probably won't make much difference.

 

[D6130]

Even worse when it's the last of the day which from Leeds is already a stupidly early 7.25.

You're lucky! When I was at Skipton the last of the only four trains per day departed from Leeds at 16 49.

 

[yorksrob]

Apart from Monday, Hallam seems to have been decent this week.