Northern cancelling late services and not assisting passengers

[pemma]

I've been hearing reports about Northern leaving people stranded at Mid-Cheshire stations last night after 698E 1930 Brindle Heath R.T.S. Flhh to Runcorn Folly Lane broke down near Cheadle blocking the line and Northern consequently cancelled the 21:41 Manchester to Chester, 22:41 Manchester to Chester and 23:41 Manchester to Chester, while 20:01 Chester to Manchester and 21:04 Chester to Manchester were terminated at Altrincham, while 22:01 and 22:26 Chester to Manchester were cancelled throughout.

Does anyone know if replacement buses operated and passengers weren't kept informed or whether Northern breached EU legislation and cancelled the last services without making alternative arrangements for affected passengers?

 

[pemma]

It seems the answer is no with a caveat. There were no replacement buses advertised and those who phoned up to complain were simply told there's no more services today and they're on their own. One or two persisted in complaining and Northern appeared to organise a minibus to move those passengers who were refusing to find their own way of getting to where they needed to be.

It also appears the 23:41 Manchester to Chester could be have reinstated as the broken down train was moved before it would have left Piccadilly but control either didn't bother or the crew had gone home. They also ran the trains which terminated at Altrincham ECS to Chester and then ECS to Newton Heath so could easily have organised a couple of Altrincham-Chester services in lieu of full cancellations.

 

[Merseysider]

Sadly this has been happening on a regular basis on the western side of their network since the scum Arriva took over the franchise. There are several threads on here describing similar, or worse, situations.

Arriva simply don’t care.

 

[js1000]

Sadly this has been happening on a regular basis on the western side of their network since the scum Arriva took over the franchise. There are several threads on here describing similar, or worse, situations.

Arriva simply don’t care.

I personally suspect Arriva Rail North are in dire financial straits. They're short of drivers and operating with the bare minimum. Additionally they are taking an absolute age to pay out on compensation claims. Those two factors should be setting alarm bells ringing at the DfT.

 

[urbophile]

Does anyone know if replacement buses operated and passengers weren't kept informed or whether Northern breached EU legislation and cancelled the last services without making alternative arrangements for affected passengers?

Isn't that just the tiresome red tape that so many people voted to abolish two years ago?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I do think this is the kind of thing that the regulator should be penalising heavily. It's one thing not paying delay compensation - it's not acceptable, but at the end of the day passengers are only losing out on compensation and they are not out of pocket as such (they have not incurred expenses of any sort). By contrast, refusing to arrange alternative transport is a rather more serious matter altogether, as it could leave less-well-prepared passengers stranded altogether at a station nowhere near home.

To be quite honest, there is no excuse for refusing to organise alternative transport: it's one thing to be unable to do so (e.g. in the case of no taxis at all being available, which I could see is remotely believable at the busiest times of day but not at 11pm), but it's entirely another matter just refusing to even try.

Northern's operating licence will have to be put at risk of withdrawal before they will learn that they can't handle stranded passengers the same way they treat compensation claims. Of course that is an entirely unfeasible option due to the disruption it would cause, and so there is not a great deal that can really be done. Ultimately everything else is just a financial hit that Arriva will in one way or another make the government pay for.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed. This is totally unacceptable, and at the very least Northern should be required to put effort into seeking out people who paid for taxis out of their own pockets and compensating them.

 

[johntea]

Not just a Northern issue in my experience, it can be hit and miss for any train operator firstly trying to find out the relevant people that can assist then getting them to agree to actually sort out a taxi or whatever!

I also don't get why TOCs are so reluctant to stick their hand in their pocket should a passenger give up and seek their own taxi transport home, as long as they can provide sufficient evidence there was no other options on the table...

 

[jon0844]

If the last train is cancelled, I would have thought staff are empowered to book taxis with no risk of 'why did you do that?' questions later. Just get people away from the station ASAP.

Exceptions might be when it makes sense to get people on another train to travel further and THEN get a taxi from there. That could get people home quicker, but can easily be seen as 'passing the buck' and shifting the problem onto someone else. It naturally requires staff to speak to each other, control etc.

 

[Intermodal]

If the last train is cancelled, I would have thought staff are empowered to book taxis with no risk of 'why did you do that?' questions later. Just get people away from the station ASAP.

Exceptions might be when it makes sense to get people on another train to travel further and THEN get a taxi from there. That could get people home quicker, but can easily be seen as 'passing the buck' and shifting the problem onto someone else. It naturally requires staff to speak to each other, control etc.

Taxis are always booked through control or a local intermediary to control - as such there is no "just book one". They have no money on hand with which to pay or authorisation to access the account.

 

[jon0844]

Taxis are always booked through control or a local intermediary to control - as such there is no "just book one". They have no money on hand with which to pay or authorisation to access the account.

I thought staff would just use a service like Cabfind? Or at some stations they can hand dockets to drivers on a rank.

 

[pemma]

Isn't that just the tiresome red tape that so many people voted to abolish two years ago?

The red tape that most businesses are happy to keep in exchange for being in the single market.

 

[pemma]

Sadly this has been happening on a regular basis on the western side of their network since the scum Arriva took over the franchise. There are several threads on here describing similar, or worse, situations.

Arriva simply don’t care.

I had noticed a change between old Northern and new Northern. With old Northern if a cancellation meant the gap between services was over two hours they usually arranged a replacement bus, new Northern don't seem to bother. However, I wasn't aware they were trying to fob off passengers after cancelling the last service, is anyone able to provide links to these other threads?

 

[pemma]

To be quite honest, there is no excuse for refusing to organise alternative transport: it's one thing to be unable to do so (e.g. in the case of no taxis at all being available, which I could see is remotely believable at the busiest times of day but not at 11pm), but it's entirely another matter just refusing to even try.

This was on a Friday night and with no trains the following night due to strike action I imagine a lot of people would have been planning to travel on the late services, so they really should have tried to organise buses not taxis or minibuses or perhaps buses doing the main stops with taxis or minibuses taking passengers who want the lesser used stops.

 

[pemma]

Agreed. This is totally unacceptable, and at the very least Northern should be required to put effort into seeking out people who paid for taxis out of their own pockets and compensating them.

In the case of the Mid-Cheshire line only Piccadilly, Stockport, Altrincham and Chester have taxis waiting outside the station. At some of the other stations there's numbers of local private hire companies on notice boards but this means anyone without a phone or a phone signal has a problem as most stations don't have help points and even the staffed stations on the line only served by Northern don't have staff after 8:30pm, so even trying to find out if a replacement bus is operating can require a phone call never mind booking a taxi.

If Northern do eventually cough up for the taxi fares it's to their benefit that passengers don't just phone the first taxi company on a list. For instance, if you want a taxi between Knutsford and Greater Manchester it's cheaper to use a Greater Manchester taxi company than a local one. Then there's the more obvious benefit that shared taxis and taxis carrying passengers in both directions are more cost effective than a taxi carrying one person and then running back empty.

 

[dave87016]

I went for the last train from Sowerby Bridge - Blackburn several weeks ago it ended up being cancelled , rang northern up they tried to fob me off saying I have to make my own arrangements to get home luckily I knew how it worked and told them I had a ticket ( which I had ) and that ticket was a contract and they had to get me home or put me in a hotel for the night eventually they got me a taxi home

 

[Intermodal]

I thought staff would just use a service like Cabfind? Or at some stations they can hand dockets to drivers on a rank.

That's not how it works in my area but I can't speak for other areas.

 

[142Pilot]

I thought staff would just use a service like Cabfind? Or at some stations they can hand dockets to drivers on a rank.

Not a chance up here.

You would need control to ring it's preferred cab firm.

Staff have ZERO authority to spend anything.

Problem comes is that the last train doesn't show at a small station and you have to ring around the houses, and even then you still might not get controls number. It's hard enough for staff never mind Joe public.

It's a travesty to be honest.

 

[jon0844]

Not a chance up here.

You would need control to ring it's preferred cab firm.

Staff have ZERO authority to spend anything.

Problem comes is that the last train doesn't show at a small station and you have to ring around the houses, and even then you still might not get controls number. It's hard enough for staff never mind Joe public.

It's a travesty to be honest.

That's pretty poor, no actually that's very poor. Staff on the ground should be trusted to call taxis at their discretion (obviously all booked taxis are then logged with the reasons, easily checked against what ran/didn't run) to save time. Using a booking agent also means you're not limited to one local firm that either charges the earth, or simply can't cope when you're trying to book taxis on a Friday night at pub/club closing time. Or a Sunday morning where the cab firm has no drivers because they all worked until 4am...

 

[LOL The Irony]

That's pretty poor, no actually that's very poor. Staff on the ground should be trusted to call taxis at their discretion

All staff at staffed Northern stations on the MCL have buggered off home by the time this incident took place. Northwich only keeps it's staff until 1 and then the office staff go home & the revenue guys go to other stations.

 

[pemma]

All staff at staffed Northern stations on the MCL have buggered off home by the time this incident took place. Northwich only keeps it's staff until 1 and then the office staff go home & the revenue guys go to other stations.

Even at Piccadilly after 10pm it's difficult to find staff with a lot of passengers in need of help stopping a driver/guard on their way to/from a train.

Hale also has a single shift ticket office so loses it's staff early afternoon. Northern do also send two of their BTP trained Travel Safe officers to Greenbank for crowd control purposes around school/college finishing times.

 

[Flyingsprinter]

When it comes to Arriva it’s all about business and business is about money. They don’t care about passengers as helping them will cost them money. The DFT won’t ever do anything to arriva, so arriva do what they like. That’s the system we have. The railways is all about profit and if anything eats into that profit, even by a few pence, then you can forget about it.