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Northern Class 170's

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robbeech

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Thanks - I duly rode on it on its final service of the day, this being my last 170 for haulage.

I meant to ask if you’d managed it yet as I knew it was your last one.
Good to get it on your local line too.
Well done on completing the class.
 

PHILIPE

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On Saturday I saw 170474 at Selby - the first time I've seen anything other than a 142/144/150/153/158 Northern there. Was this just out of place due to the strikes, or does anyone know if we might see more 170s in this area? They look so much more modern in comparison :)

And 155s, I should think. According to Post #423 2 x 156s were seen there today
 

IanXC

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I think they were just adding to the list of "what usually turns up at Selby". Though 156s only returned to anywhere between Huddersfield and Darlington regularly in May of this year.

Theres no way a 156 has been to Selby on Friday, and the post it refers to is quite clearly talking about 170s.
 

superkev

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Enjoy our ex ScotRail 170s lads, they will be missed on the E&G!
Hmm according to this months Modern Railways spanners awards the ex Scotrail 170s are propping up the miles per technical incident (period 7) stats with a figure of just 2944miles. If I had a car that broke down every 3000 miles I think someone hadn't been looking after it properly.
Neither Scotrail or Northern depots ever seem to feature much in the annual spanners awards.
K
 

GrimShady

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Hmm according to this months Modern Railways spanners awards the ex Scotrail 170s are propping up the miles per technical incident (period 7) stats with a figure of just 2944miles. If I had a car that broke down every 3000 miles I think someone hadn't been looking after it properly.
Neither Scotrail or Northern depots ever seem to feature much in the annual spanners awards.
K

Maybe so Kev but the 385 isn't a good replacement interior wise.
 

johntea

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I appear to be sat in the first class section on a 170 to Harrogate!

Presumably this is one of the units that would be usually be covering the TPE Leeds to Huddersfield?
 

Kieran1990

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What is the plan for all the 16 Class 170’s when they are with Northern?
I know the Harrogate Loop, with the enhancements in May to 4tph will see the requirement rise (8/9 units?)
The Leeds-Selby shuttles (2 units)

That accounts for about 10/11 units- what about the rest?
I read in Modern Railways or Rail they are to be deployed on Bridlington-Sheffield’s? Or is the plan for Leeds-Southport still?
 

theblackwatch

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I appear to be sat in the first class section on a 170 to Harrogate!

Presumably this is one of the units that would be usually be covering the TPE Leeds to Huddersfield?

There are currently 4 sets with FC (454-457), with another (453) coming at the weekend. They don't have specific workings, and in any case Leeds-Huddersfield only requires one set.
 

anamyd

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General opinion from the Selby-Leeds regulars is that the 170's are amazing, though some find the seats a bit firm (I find them about right). Still plenty of people standing after Garforth though, so capacity isn't much different to a 3x 150/153/158 set. Most seem genuinely surprised that they're around 20 years old.
The Northern 170s are later builds of 2004-2005 vintage, making them 14-15 years old (or "over 13-14 years old" seeing as we've only just gone into 2019 now. How are "most people" surprised that they're noughties trains when "most people" don't know that anyway...? Unless I'm missing something :)
 

Mogster

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I suspect they are just a step change from the 142s, 15xs they are used to travelling on.
 

PomWombat

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What is the plan for all the 16 Class 170’s when they are with Northern?
I know the Harrogate Loop, with the enhancements in May to 4tph will see the requirement rise (8/9 units?)
The Leeds-Selby shuttles (2 units)

That accounts for about 10/11 units- what about the rest?
I read in Modern Railways or Rail they are to be deployed on Bridlington-Sheffield’s? Or is the plan for Leeds-Southport still?

For the Harrogate line, I thought the 4tph plan was for 170s to perform the Leeds-York services (likely 6 diagrams) with 158s to run Leeds-Harrogate services (likely 4 diagrams).

But Northern don't appear to like the performance of the 170 on the line, so we might see that change.

With talk of taking the 170s away from the Harrogate line, I wonder if there will be any repercussions for dashing those raised expectations. It is one thing to wait for improvements, but another for them to arrive and then be taken away again.
 
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bb21

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Please note that discussion about linespeed upgrades and impact of level crossings has been hived off into this thread.

Reminder that the thread is about the Class 170 rolling stock, not speed upgrades, as popular threads such as this one are very difficult to move back on topic once thread-drift occurs.
 

superkev

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May be applicable but the final drives on LTs 172s destined for WMT are geared for 75mph which must give super acceleration grip permitting. Much more suitable in northern land me thinks.
K
 

Halifaxlad

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With talk of taking the 170s away from the Harrogate line, I wonder if there will be any repercussions for dashing those raised expectations. It is one thing to wait for improvements, but another for them to arrive and then be taken away again.

I wonder if that's why Grayling refereed to the Harrogate Line recently when talking about these new trains?

He got quite a bit of stick on Social Media about it.

https://twitter.com/spencerstokestv/status/1080496849398702080
BBC News Correspondent/Spencer Stokes/Twitter/@spencerstokestv/02-01-2019/8:11 AM
 

Halifaxlad

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2004-2005, not 2001. but yeah, still very "not new"

My point was that with Grayling speaking about the new 195's it sounds like they may end up on the Harrogate Line.

To say that some services were/are going to be semi-fast and with the 170's providing lower capacity I can see the 170's being moved elsewhere, although we will have to wait and see what happens.
 

johntea

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The way my working week goes I find I’m always on a 170 from Leeds to Harrogate but always on a 144 back!

I do agree with Alex Hornby in that if I lived in Leeds I would probably just be using the 36 bus rather than the train!
 

PomWombat

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Most of the 170s are used on day-round diagrams, and most of the peak infill goes to the old traction.

I do use the 36 sometimes, and when on time it can be similar journey times door to door - but it is more likely to be late. And potholes make you wish for the comfort of a pacer.
My point was that with Grayling speaking about the new 195's it sounds like they may end up on the Harrogate Line.

To say that some services were/are going to be semi-fast and with the 170's providing lower capacity I can see the 170's being moved elsewhere, although we will have to wait and see what happens.

The 195s could end up on the line, but I bet only after they've gained experience of them through the current plans. Are there plans to train anyone on the Yorkshire side?

But I wouldn't expect them to swap a 170 for a 195 for capacity reasons. Aren't they about the same length and number of seats? That is 3-car vs 3-car... I think we'd need some platforms lengthened for 4x23m.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Another planet...
Most of the 170s are used on day-round diagrams, and most of the peak infill goes to the old traction.

I do use the 36 sometimes, and when on time it can be similar journey times door to door - but it is more likely to be late. And potholes make you wish for the comfort of a pacer.


The 195s could end up on the line, but I bet only after they've gained experience of them through the current plans. Are there plans to train anyone on the Yorkshire side?

But I wouldn't expect them to swap a 170 for a 195 for capacity reasons. Aren't they about the same length and number of seats? That is 3-car vs 3-car... I think we'd need some platforms lengthened for 4x23m.
AIUI 195s will share Northern Connect duties with 158s on services such as Bradford to Nottingham and Leeds to Lincoln, so I'd assume Yorkshire based crews will operate those.

The 170s with their door layout (similar to 195s) and gearing would seem more suited to the "legacy fleet" Northern Connect role than the 158s, but presumably the numbers don't add up.
 

Halifaxlad

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I was thinking that they might decide to run 2, 2 Car 195's coupled together at peak times. Since by the time these new trains will now be in service it should in theory be 4 trains an hour instead of 2, that should mitigate loss in capacity from running trains 1 coach shorter than the existing 3 car 170's. Overall this would increase capacity at peak times.

With regards to the platforms I believe they are already long enough for 4 car trains, Headingley was lengthened I believe many years ago by Railtrack. I once found the Planning Application on Leeds City Council website although I don't seem to be able to find it anymore. You can clearly tell anyway on the Leeds bound platform, at the Leeds end as they did it up to the minimum standard instead of the width of the actual platform.
 

Muttley

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Knaresborough is the problem. 80m platform with a tunnel at one end a LC at t'other. No chance of extending. Currently 155+150 and above is run under grandfather rights.
 
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