Northern Class 185 Diagrams

[Philip]

Is it known yet when 185s will completely finish their Northern/North West duties? Is it possible Northern will still be using a couple beyond the end of the year?

 

[Greybeard33]

I have now checked the actual diagrams for 08 June (a day without cancellations). They were pretty much in line with Post #150. Most of the shunt moves at Preston were not needed because of platforming changes. And, in a one-off variation to the WTT, after handback of the Diagram B unit to TPE the ECS working was to Piccadilly not Ardwick.

Is it known yet when 185s will completely finish their Northern/North West duties? Is it possible Northern will still be using a couple beyond the end of the year?

(From TPE MK3 thread):

Perhaps the next step should be for TPE to reclaim the two 185s being used by Northern, as soon as the next pair of 158s arrives from Scotrail.

The WCML paths are timed for 100mph DMUs. So I should think Northern will need to continue using these two 185s until they can be replaced by 195s.

 

[ValleyLines142]

So just to confirm, there are no 185s booked to Blackpool anymore?

 

[Philip]

I have now checked the actual diagrams for 08 June (a day without cancellations). They were pretty much in line with Post #150. Most of the shunt moves at Preston were not needed because of platforming changes. And, in a one-off variation to the WTT, after handback of the Diagram B unit to TPE the ECS working was to Piccadilly not Ardwick.

(From TPE MK3 thread):

The WCML paths are timed for 100mph DMUs. So I should think Northern will need to continue using these two 185s until they can be replaced by 195s.

Thanks. It also seems like they haven't quite finished on Scotland duties either just yet. The last two Saturdays have seen the 09:10 and 17:10 Airport-Glasgow services worked by 185s (same diagram). '116 was working it yesterday. Is it as booked or a 350 shortage?

Also, are TPE only giving Northern unrefurbished units like they were doing when '101 was first done, or is it a complete joint pool?

 

[Bungle965]

Thanks. It also seems like they haven't quite finished on Scotland duties either just yet. The last two Saturdays have seen the 09:10 and 17:10 Airport-Glasgow services worked by 185s (same diagram). '116 was working it yesterday. Is it as booked or a 350 shortage?

Also, are TPE only giving Northern unrefurbished units like they were doing when '101 was first done, or is it a complete joint pool?

Up until the May timetable change there was booked 185 work, not sure if that has changed but doubt it.
Sam

 

[Greybeard33]

So just to confirm, there are no 185s booked to Blackpool anymore?

No, no 185s to Blackpool or Windermere any more. Blackpool North to Airport is now 319s via Wigan (reduced service under emergency timetable). Blackpool North to Piccadilly via Bolton is Sprinters (terminates at Oxford Road under emergency timetable).

 

[ValleyLines142]

No, no 185s to Blackpool or Windermere any more. Blackpool North to Airport is now 319s via Wigan (reduced service under emergency timetable). Blackpool North to Piccadilly via Bolton is Sprinters (terminates at Oxford Road under emergency timetable).

Shame. In that case I'll stick to the Pendolinos.

 

[geoffk]

No, no 185s to Blackpool or Windermere any more. Blackpool North to Airport is now 319s via Wigan (reduced service under emergency timetable). Blackpool North to Piccadilly via Bolton is Sprinters (terminates at Oxford Road under emergency timetable).

So they are just needed for Barrow. There was a 185 at Bolton today, which must have been the 11.53 Barrow to MIA.

 

[Mordac]

Heard a rumour they were going to use these for Barton-on-Humber services. Any truth to this?

 

[SteveyBee131]

Heard a rumour they were going to use these for Barton-on-Humber services. Any truth to this?

To a degree. In theory, it should work something like this:

The daytime Barton services are worked by a Northern 153. This stables at Lincoln overnight and works to Cleethorpes with an EMT unit on 5T18, the 0442 Lincoln to Cleethorpes ECS, which then detaches and works 2F83, 0700 Cleethorpes to Barton etc, etc.

Meanwhile, 2F81, the 0559 Cleethorpes to Barton is worked by a 185, which then works 1B71, the 0826 Cleethorpes to Manchester Airport etc, etc.

Then in the evening...

1B86, the 1653 Manchester Airport to Cleethorpes works as a pair of 185s due to peak time demand.
On arrival at Cleethorpes, the pair split, with what was the rear unit working back as 1B95, the 2026 Cleethorpes to Manchester Airport.
The other unit is then available to work 2F97, the 2104 Cleethorpes to Barton-upon-Humber and 2F98 return. I say it's available because it only works it if the 153 that has been used during the day doesn't join an EMT unit on 2T78 to work to Lincoln in preparation to head to Leeds (and Neville Hill depot) the next day.

Hopefully that all makes sense and helps! If it sounds complicated, it's because it is!

 

[Philip]

From the Working Timetable, it appears that the planned diagrams from May 2018 are as follows (platform numbers not necessarily reliable):

Diagram A:
(1B59 0325 SHeFfield to Manchester International Airport P3B, 0510)
Handover TPE > Northern
1N51* 0542 MIA, P3B - PREston P3, 0652
5U54* 0654 PRE P3, 0652 - PRE P6, 0719, ECS
1Y54 0728 PRE P6 - MIA P4A, 0833, front portion
1C51 0841 MIA P2A - PRE P1, 0949, rear portion
5U57* 1000 PRE P1 - PRE P6, 1021, ECS
1Y57* 1024 PRE P6 - MIA P2A, 1133
1C52 1141 MIA P2A - Barrow-In-Furness P1, 1414
1Y63 1448 BIF P2 - MIA P2A, 1733, rear portion from PRE
1C54 1742 MIA P2A - BIF P1, 2014 front portion to PRE
5N63* 2020 BIF P1 - Barrow Carriage Sidings [XBF] 2023, ECS
(This unit then works Diagram B the following day)

Diagram B:
5U91* 0600 XBF - BIF P2, 0603
1Y54 0611 BIF P2 - MIA P4A, 0833, rear portion from PRE
1C51 0841 MIA P2A - BIF P1, 1114, front portion to PRE
1Y60 1153 BIF P1 - MIA P2B, 1433
1N60* 1440 MIA P2B - PRE P1, 1550
5U63* 1552 PRE P1 - PRE P6, 1601, ECS
1Y63 1624 PRE P6 - MIA P2A, 1733, front portion
1C54 1742 MIA P2A - PRE P1, 1850, rear portion
5U66* 1901 PRE P1 - PRE P2, 1912, ECS
1Y66* 1923 PRE P2 - MIA P2A, 2031
1N66* 2039 MIA P2A - PRE P1, 2152
5U69* 2154 PRE P1 - PRE P4, 2216, ECS
1Y69* 2222 PRE P4 - MIA P1A, 2333
Handback Northern > TPE
(5W77 0101 MIA P1A - Ardwick Traction Maintenance Depot [XRK], 0123, ECS, rear portion)

* Service pathed for 75mph Sprinter

On the first three weekdays of the timetable, 21 - 23 May, Northern did not receive the Diagram A unit from TPE, so was left with a single 185. There were cancellations and short workings, with a 158 or Sprinter substituted on some of the other services - see discussion in Northern Timetable thread. On the first two days the same 185 seems to have ended up back stabled in Barrow overnight - it remains to be seen what will happen today (23rd).

Please point out errors in the above.

I'm not sure if the first diagram does start with the 03:25 from Sheffield; TRUST shows the unit working this is then down to work the 05:48 from Man Airport to Middlesbrough. Does the first Northern diagram start from Ardwick?

 

[Greybeard33]

I inferred the handover from the Airport platform allocations in the Working Timetable. But the 0542 Airport to Preston is cancelled in Northern's current emergency timetable. The front portion of the 0728 Preston to Airport is instead formed from an ECS working from Blackpool North CMD. I presume the unit works to Blackpool from the Airport the previous evening, but I have not figured out the details.

So the unit off the 03:25 from Sheffield does indeed currently stay with TPE as you described.

Edit: On 25 June it appears from RTT that the 185 off the 2040 Hull to Manchester Airport (arr P4 2308) formed the 2346 Airport to Blackpool North (pathed for a 319!) then the 0132 BPN to Blackpool North CMD.

 

[JOHNR150]

These lightweight fuel efficient Class 185 units are some of the best units on the network and Northern should use for as long as they can. The seats are good quality and they have a fair degree of comfort. My ideal positon is standing next to the internal section that the exhaust takes up, you know the one that the units lose two seats due to the design.

 

[driver9000]

Lightweight and fuel efficient are not normally terms used to describe 185s.

 

[MDB1images]

The 23:46 Airport to Blackpool is booked a Class 185

I inferred the handover from the Airport platform allocations in the Working Timetable. But the 0542 Airport to Preston is cancelled in Northern's current emergency timetable. The front portion of the 0728 Preston to Airport is instead formed from an ECS working from Blackpool North CMD. I presume the unit works to Blackpool from the Airport the previous evening, but I have not figured out the details.

So the unit off the 03:25 from Sheffield does indeed currently stay with TPE as you described.

Edit: On 25 June it appears from RTT that the 185 off the 2040 Hull to Manchester Airport (arr P4 2308) formed the 2346 Airport to Blackpool North (pathed for a 319!) then the 0132 BPN to Blackpool North CMD.