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Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates

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Bantamzen

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Someone will be along shortly to cite the 333s serving your area... Not me though, I have standing space on 185s for the foreseeable! ;)

Lol!! The 333s have long since lost that new train feel, more that <ahem> lived in feel these days. It's hard to believe that they are still the franchise’s newest units now, they are in all seriousness starting to need the upcoming refreshes, even though I'm not looking forward to more standing room and less seats that will come with it.

And I have to confess, if planning a trip on the 185s its always planned well in advance, bought with my wife and I's Two-Together card, and always 1st Class. At least that way you get to escape the daily game of "How many people can you ram onto a 3 car 185 set", well at least until 1st Class gets de-classified (which in all honesty seems to be less and less).

D365 said:
How about South Yorkshire, when was the last time we had new trains on stopping services? :)

South Yorkshire? Sorry, never heard of it..... ;)

I must admit you'd be hard pressed to remember the last time a new unit trundled out onto a Northern franchise stopper down there!! I think steam was still common then.... ;)
 
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R

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How about South Yorkshire, when was the last time we had new trains on stopping services? ;)

interestingly SYPTE may have caused newer stock to be retained in West Yorkshire through one of their decisions in supporting Northern's current fleet arrangment
 

pemma

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And I have to confess, if planning a trip on the 185s its always planned well in advance, bought with my wife and I's Two-Together card, and always 1st Class. At least that way you get to escape the daily game of "How many people can you ram onto a 3 car 185 set", well at least until 1st Class gets de-classified (which in all honesty seems to be less and less).

Some passengers applying common sense would help.

I was on platform 16 at Leeds with over 300 other passengers where there was one service to Manchester Airport which was running late and the following service to Manchester Piccadilly was a couple of minutes behind it. Yet over 200 crammed on to the first train, meaning when I boarded the second I got a pair of seats to myself. :)

Generally Hull services are quieter between Leeds and Manchester than those which are going between York and Piccadilly regardless if the trains are on time or not.
 
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Bantamzen

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Some passengers applying common sense would help.

I was on platform 16 at Leeds with over 300 other passengers where there was one service to Manchester Airport which was running late and the following service to Manchester Piccadilly was a couple of minutes behind it. Yet over 200 crammed on to the first train, meaning when I boarded the second I got a pair of seats to myself. :)

Generally Hull services are quieter between Leeds and Manchester than those which are going between York and Piccadilly regardless if the trains are on time or not.

To be honest I avoid platform 16 like the plague between 16:00 & 18:00, with the possible exception of the 16:09 to Liverpool as an ECS move parks on 16A to double up the service, so punters aim for that before the rear portion arrives from Scarborough.

But yes, the great public don't seem to help themselves as can easily be demonstrated on the 17:26 to Skipton.....
 

61653 HTAFC

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How about South Yorkshire, when was the last time we had new trains on stopping services? ;)

321/9s Leeds to Doncaster. Sprinters and Pacers on non-electrified lines. Briefly, MML 170s to Barnsley. Soon, 399s to Rotherham. Even 195s will mostly be on semi-fasts won't they?
 

47802

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I know, I just meant they should have said both intercity and regional for Hitachi.

Do we need to make a great debate about this, it was just a passing comment and no doubt people will make comparisons, but I didn't include AT300 because as a 125mph+ Intercity train I didn't really think it was directly comparable, the Stadler EMU's are a bit in between, but the other units mentioned save for different interior specs are all more directly comparable.

Going back to the CAF train's ideally I would have preferred to have seen UK built trains or Siemens but at least Northern is getting some proper new trains which is an important point, rather than D trains, or upgraded Pacers or any other 3rd rate railway type nonsense.
 
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Mordac

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Do we need to make a great debate about this, it was just a passing comment and no doubt people will make comparisons, but I didn't include AT300 because as a 125mph+ Intercity train I didn't really think it was directly comparable the Stadler EMU's are a bit in between, but the other units mentioned save for different interior specs are all more directly comparable.

Going back to the CAF train's ideally I would have preferred to have seen UK built trains or Siemens but at least Northern is getting some proper new trains which is an important point, rather than D trains, or upgraded Pacers.

I didn't mean to, but people kept misunderstanding me!:oops:
 

pemma

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Going back to the CAF train's ideally I would have preferred to have seen UK built trains or Siemens

Either alternative would have likely meant they would have costed more and would have been delivered later as CAF were desperate for an order to prevent a facility being closed so offered reduced prices in an attempt to win the contract.

Would you have preferred 160 new British carriages or 280 new Spanish carriages?

or any other 3rd rate railway type nonsense.

When Anglia are replacing 156s and 170s with brand new trains and Northern are taking on 156s and 170s to replace Pacers and 153s I don't think that argument will go away.
 
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NotATrainspott

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I'm not sure if it's been posted yet but on the CAF website the 331s have a new set of renders:

2civity-arrivaUK-electric.jpg

1civity-arrivaUK-electric.jpg


Presumably this design refinement will also affect the DMUs and TPE units, since they all had similar-looking renders.
 

47802

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Either alternative would have likely meant they would have costed more and would have been delivered later as CAF were desperate for an order to prevent a facility being closed so offered reduced prices in an attempt to win the contract.

Would you have preferred 160 new British carriages or 280 new Spanish carriages?



When Anglia are replacing 156s and 170s with brand new trains and Northern are taking on 156s and 170s to replace Pacers and 153s I don't think that argument will go away.

I think I made pretty clear that while I might have preferred a UK manufacturer I am pleased that therewill be some new trains for Northern and admittedly it has been suggested Bombardier were not interested in bidding for the Diesel Trains anyway, and I think Siemens said some time ago they were not interested in making any more Diesel trains for the UK market .

I don't have a problem with Anglia getting all new Bi-Mode Trains, It probably makes a great deal of sense since they don't have a large Diesel fleet anyway, and the 170's and 156's will likely be used elsewhere.
 
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1179_Clee2

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I'm not sure if it's been posted yet but on the CAF website the 331s have a new set of renders:

2civity-arrivaUK-electric.jpg

1civity-arrivaUK-electric.jpg


Presumably this design refinement will also affect the DMUs and TPE units, since they all had similar-looking renders.

looking at the pics, there are a couple of things that are not the norm on UK rolling stock.
Panto on lead vehicle. Only Class 307's and 2 car 309's have had this.
The bogies look very inboard as the drivers steps are on the body not bogie.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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sprinterguy

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The interior seats all line up with windows (difficult to tell if it is first class or not).
Two designs of seat are shown: As the TPE Civities will only have 24 first class seats and an intermediate carriage is shown in the image on the far right with 2+2 layout throughout which greatly exceeds this total, I assume that it shows standard class. The image to the left of that one shows a deeper seat with more padding, larger armrests and a possible recline function which would suggest first class, and those do not line up with the windows due to the greater seat pitch.

What we don't know is how closely these CGI renders will resemble the finalised layout once the trains are actually built, but a seating layout which is optimised to window spacing in standard class, with a majority of table bays, will no doubt please many on this forum.
 
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Bletchleyite

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The interior seats all line up with windows (difficult to tell if it is first class or not).

It's 2+2 so I would imagine Standard. The First Class seats are shown separately and interestingly do not line up!

That's a lot of tables! Will I imagine be quite popular.

I look forward to a journey on one, and might well find myself rejigging north WCML journeys to ensure one!
 
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pemma

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They've also finally added a page for the TPE ones http://www.caf.net/en/productos-servicios/proyectos/proyecto-detalle.php?p=286 (although apparently they forgot to translate it!)

In English -

FIRST GROUP REGIONAL CIVITY TRAIN
CAF is the supplier of the new regional trains for the TransPennine franchise operated by the company First Group. The new trains are electric multiple units and belong to the Civity platform.

These Civity units are composed of 5 cars each and can reach a top speed of 200 km/h. Their modern and functional interior design, information systems for travellers and wifi on board, aims to maximise the degree of passenger comfort.

The design of these new trains reduces damage on the track(?*) thanks to lower weight of the units. In addition, the UK Civity units are specifically designed for energy recovery in braking thanks to regenerative braking. Thus, it helps to streamline operations and achieve high levels of efficiency.

The degree of commitment of CAF operator First Group is long term, and that collaboration will continue until the end of the operation of the franchise, by providing a technical support to comprehensive maintenance and spare parts management for both train platforms.

* Google translate said it should be pious which I think is wrong. I've also made some other syntax corrections to what Google translate produced in the above.
 

pemma

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It's 2+2 so I would imagine Standard. The First Class seats are shown separately and interestingly do not line up!

That's a lot of tables! Will I imagine be quite popular.

I look forward to a journey on one, and might well find myself rejigging north WCML journeys to ensure one!

From the franchise agreement:

a minimum of 60% of standard class seats to be configured in bay seating layout with four seats facing a central table;

include a first class accommodation specification materially superior to standard class including in consequence of the fitting of seats that are wider and more comfortable than those in standard class such seats being configured in bays with tables throughout save for:
(i) one row of seats per unit (facing the wheelchair seating area) which shall not be configured with a table; and
(ii) one row of seats per unit (immediately behind the row of seats referred to in paragraph 33.1(d)(i)) which shall be unidirectional and not configured in a bay;

The above is for the CAF stock and different requirements apply for the bi-mode stock which only requires 35% of standard class seats at table bays.
 

D365

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Are the Class 397s not going to be future-proofed with 140mph capability then?

These new renders for the Class 331 seem to echo of the Stadler EMUs that have recently been put into service by Meridian of Germany and others.
 

Bletchleyite

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In case they are cascaded to a different route after HS2/HS3 (as and when either of those is opened to traffic).

Which routes in the UK (non-HS1/2) are likely to end up with non-tilt 140mph running?

If HS2 is built in full, classic lines are likely to get slower, not faster.

Clue: none.
 

Domh245

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Which routes in the UK (non-HS1/2) are likely to end up with non-tilt 140mph running?

If HS2 is built in full, classic lines are likely to get slower, not faster.

Clue: none.

Parts of ECML and GWML once ERTMS has been fitted. Not sure if it could be applied to any stretches of the ECML that TPE use, but it would be a possibility.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Parts of ECML and GWML once ERTMS has been fitted. Not sure if it could be applied to any stretches of the ECML that TPE use, but it would be a possibility.

The Civity platform is a "Regional" one. It doesn't have any pretensions to be a high-speed unit.
A great deal would have to change to make it suitable for 140mph. No other model in the range so far has exceeded 160km/h.
The WCML units will only operate at 110mph, and they won't have ETCS.
 
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