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Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates

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YorkshireLad

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195009 had the pleasure of working the 16:38 service from Leeds to Lincoln today. Got into Sheffield 30 minutes late and due to issues with the doors everybody had to leave via the last set of the doors at the back.

Unsurprisingly the people trying to board weren't aware and the situation devolved into a mini scrum
 
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Llama

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Exactly the sort of issue that happens whenever these units enter service on new routes, eg with new crew. Quite likely just needed Asdo bypassing to get the doors opened, should take ten seconds.
 

YorkshireLad

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Exactly the sort of issue that happens whenever these units enter service on new routes, eg with new crew. Quite likely just needed Asdo bypassing to get the doors opened, should take ten seconds.

In all fairness the Lincoln bound crew seem to have a grasp of it. Ironically the announcement system seems to be a few stops behind with the automated system announcing we were at shireoaks when at darnall and Worksop when at Woodhouse. Bar the obvious problems I'm quite impressed with the rest of the unit
 

superkev

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195009 had the pleasure of working the 16:38 service from Leeds to Lincoln today. Got into Sheffield 30 minutes late and due to issues with the doors everybody had to leave via the last set of the doors at the back.

Unsurprisingly the people trying to board weren't aware and the situation devolved into a mini scrum
The ASDO system seems problematic and the main cause of CAF unit reliability problems.
Is there a requirement for it to be switched on.
Do other TOCs have a similar system.
K
 

Llama

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There are occasional faults where the doors on a certain coach don't release, I've seen it on both 195s and 331s but it is a rarity, and when it does occur it is intermittent. I've never been to Lincoln but I would imagine that that is a station where guards are told that bypassing Asdo is mandatory.

The PIS should know where it it's though.

With regard to Asdo, yes it must be operational at all times, it can be overridden under fault conditions (with a phone call to the driver first then control for reportingbthe issue/authorisation to oveeride) or overridden in normal working when the system has no pre-programmed platform; and it can be isolated in a couple of ways with prior authority from control.

I'm fairly sure the Electrostars on GTR/maybe other TOCs have a similar system.
 

swt_passenger

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The ASDO system seems problematic and the main cause of CAF unit reliability problems.
Is there a requirement for it to be switched on.
Do other TOCs have a similar system.
K
As I understand it, from the discussions of the introduction on SWT, to be correctly “fail safe” under all conditions an Automatic Selective Door Operating system (ASDO) system must still be used for every station on a train’s schedule, ie it is still used to control release of all doors at full length platforms, as well as some doors at short platforms, if you see what I mean.

So it’s all or nothing, it cannot be used part time...
 
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superkev

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With all these pacers being withdrawn and the new timetable beckoning have any more 195s been taken out of store or whatever at edge hill. Last report a while back was 7 x2 car and 2 x3 car there as well as 13 still awaited from CAF.
K
 

SteveM70

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Couple of things unnoticed on 195 101 today

The Northern promise of “plug sockets at every seat” is a single plug socket for each pair of seats, which smacks of doing the job on the cheap

The flush button on the toilet is labelled “WC” which doesn’t make any sense and smacks of lack of attention to detail
 

themiller

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I'm going to keep an eye on the doors in freezing weather after seeing the amount of condensation on the inside of two of the units I rode this week.
 

50007

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Anyone know the story behind a 195 being towed through Leeds station by a pair of class 37s at about 0945 this morning? Presumably linked to the cancellation of a Chester service.
 

superkev

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2 car 195 015 was giving a cosy ride on the 14.24 Sowerby Bridge Chester via Man Vic. 2 cars to Man vic on a Sat before Christmas - hmm.
K
 
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superkev

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Anyone know the story behind a 195 being towed through Leeds station by a pair of class 37s at about 0945 this morning? Presumably linked to the cancellation of a Chester service.
You sure it was a 195 as newly refreshed 333.004 was towed through around that time.
K
 

Roose

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The flush button on the toilet is labelled “WC” which doesn’t make any sense and smacks of lack of attention to detail
What else might you imagine a button marked 'WC' might do other than flush the toilet?
 

Spartacus

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What else might you imagine a button marked 'WC' might do other than flush the toilet?

I must admit it struck me as a little out of place, normally WC would refer to the room rather than action of flushing the toilet. Some flush buttons can be rather ambiguous though, leading to large numbers pressing the call for aids instead of flushing the loo.
 

J-2739

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Just tried two of these things for a Barnsley to Sheffield return. (195012 and 195013)

I do like the units; you have the large sized PIS displays, as well as the seemingly high capacity overhead racks (I didn't use them!). It is as if they took into account customers and their needs. Seats are not at all bad (I'd rate them a 7/10), and the engine noise is kept to a minimum, allowing me to snooze off on a few occasions! Also, the 195 cabin is more spacious than what you'd believe, looking at pictures and videos.

The suspension on the 195s is a bit, um... crap. Just bad enough that if I wanted to stimulate the feeling of a roller-coaster without paying a fortune to go to Alton Towers, I'd take these units. Meanwhile, the braking is quite sharp sometimes? Although I don't really mind that too much. Acceleration is good for a DMU.

All in all, they will do the job for a good while. Bring them on!
 

WYSH

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One thing that’s lacking from the 195s is the absence of any luggage racks. Caught a 2-car Friday afternoon Leeds to Nottingham service and people’s suitcases were stacking up against the doors. Seems strange luggage racks have been completely overlooked seeing as these units operate longer distance services across the north between major cities.
 

Bletchleyite

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One thing that’s lacking from the 195s is the absence of any luggage racks. Caught a 2-car Friday afternoon Leeds to Nottingham service and people’s suitcases were stacking up against the doors. Seems strange luggage racks have been completely overlooked seeing as these units operate longer distance services across the north between major cities.

The overheads are absolutely huge - even the largest bag will fit. Though I do think they should do what Thameslink did on the 700s and put some in some of the standbacks.
 

js1000

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One thing that’s lacking from the 195s is the absence of any luggage racks. Caught a 2-car Friday afternoon Leeds to Nottingham service and people’s suitcases were stacking up against the doors. Seems strange luggage racks have been completely overlooked seeing as these units operate longer distance services across the north between major cities.
The problem with luggage racks is that they take up precious standing/seating space. Look the luggage racks on Northern's 323s. They're a complete waste of time - too big and you're trusting them to constantly operate via Manchester Airport all the time which doesn't happen. In time the 195/331s will also be operating on commuter routes where there will be little luggage so Arriva were correct to specify a dual flip down seat/space for luggage solution.

Also took my first trip on the 331s today. The ride quality on them isn't great but they're much better than the 195s. I would suggest the 195 has some ballast problems undercarriage with the engines which results in a bumpy ride. I'd say poor suspension as well but the 331s are much better and have the same suspension so doesn't stack up.
 

JonathanH

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Look the luggage racks on Northern's 323s.

Only 323223-323225 have the large racks - you have to assume that when they were ordered, the plan was to run them on a dedicated Airport service but clearly things didn't work out that way. People prefer to be close to their luggage and have it in sight in any case so large racks aren't really the way forward - better to have room near seats.
 

Nymanic

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It should be noted that at least luggage racks allow cases to be stacked - in moderation, they allow for more efficient use of space.

Cases in vestibules will always be placed side by side, rather than stacked (unless your regard for safety borders on criminally negligent). And much like 185s, it can sometimes be a struggle to wade through the ocean of luggage just to get on/off the train.

Security is also an issue. Will an insurer pay out if you leave a case by the door, almost inevitably out of sight, and find it missing later in the journey? That's assuming that the passenger is insured to begin with...
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Security is also an issue. Will an insurer pay out if you leave a case by the door, almost inevitably out of sight, and find it missing later in the journey? That's assuming that the passenger is insured to begin with...

You note a good point here. That particular offence of luggage theft from trains has been the subject of some television programmes in recent years.
 

Bletchleyite

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Only 323223-323225 have the large racks - you have to assume that when they were ordered, the plan was to run them on a dedicated Airport service but clearly things didn't work out that way.

It did initially - there was a Picc-Airport all stations service - I *think* it then reversed there and went on to Crewe?
 

Tracked

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Had my first journey on one from CHD to SHF this afternoon, interesting, a couple of things stood out:

- It was noisier slowing down to stop than it was starting off from the station, not just the brakes (maybe with it being new they were quite squealy, the 331's don't seem as bad), the engine whine as it slowed down was the main noise.
- Condensation on the door's windows, haven't noticed this in the 331's either
- The door problem, no issues at Dronfield but in Sheffield the doors in the front car wouldn't open

Ride seemed ok, maybe not as smooth as a 170.
 

Bovverboy

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It did initially - there was a Picc-Airport all stations service - I *think* it then reversed there and went on to Crewe?

Until the Chat Moss stopper was diverted from Victoria to the Piccadilly corridor and extended to Crewe (a couple of years or so ago) there had been for many years 2tph all-stations Piccadilly - Airport, one of which continued to Crewe. When the Chat Moss service extended to Crewe the second train/hour all-stations was done away with, and the intermediate stops picked up by other services.

Towards the end of its separate existence the Picc-Airport service went over to 319 operation, but prior to that 323223-5 had continued to be used whenever possible. However it had been accepted at a very early stage of their existence that the luggage pen idea hadn't been a particularly good one.
 

ed1971

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Had my first journey on one from CHD to SHF this afternoon, interesting, a couple of things stood out:

- It was noisier slowing down to stop than it was starting off from the station, not just the brakes (maybe with it being new they were quite squealy, the 331's don't seem as bad), the engine whine as it slowed down was the main noise.
- Condensation on the door's windows, haven't noticed this in the 331's either
- The door problem, no issues at Dronfield but in Sheffield the doors in the front car wouldn't open

Ride seemed ok, maybe not as smooth as a 170.

They may be noisier slowing down due to the retarder in the gearbox. Older buses with the Voith Diawa gearbox did this.
 

WYSH

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The problem with luggage racks is that they take up precious standing/seating space. Look the luggage racks on Northern's 323s. They're a complete waste of time - too big and you're trusting them to constantly operate via Manchester Airport all the time which doesn't happen. In time the 195/331s will also be operating on commuter routes where there will be little luggage so Arriva were correct to specify a dual flip down seat/space for luggage solution.

they may take up space but so do bags on seats which is what is happening. As the 195/331 are replacing 158s on a number of routes which do have space for bags it seems almost a step back for passengers to now have to travel with a bag on a seat or piled up by the doors.
 

superkev

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they may take up space but so do bags on seats which is what is happening. As the 195/331 are replacing 158s on a number of routes which do have space for bags it seems almost a step back for passengers to now have to travel with a bag on a seat or piled up by the doors.
158s far superior for long distance routes like Nottingham, Blackpool with fewer stops (air con problems accepted)
K
 
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