Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Haydn1971, 2 Apr 2016.

  1. palmersears

    palmersears Established Member

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    I've been on 195s where the guard has opened the doors from the front upon arrival at Lime Street. I've not seen it at intermediate stations, however.
     
  2. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Very Northern! :D

    Why can't they just carry the driver's key separately?
     
  3. Llama

    Llama Established Member

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    There's been concrete down within the shed visible for many weeks now so I'd assume it isn't that but it would explain a lot if it was that.
     
  4. Llama

    Llama Established Member

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    It's not physically possible to get in the doors with just a drivers key as was the intended design, there's far too much force required and you can't get enough leverage. Even using an adjustable spanner on the lug of a drivers key for extra torque bends the drivers key.
     
  5. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    That would explain why I've seen so many unlocked cab doors on 195s.
     
  6. Llama

    Llama Established Member

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    It's the exterior cab crew doors we're talking about here rather than the cab to saloon doors, the exterior doors don't actually lock but are virtually impossible to get into without the right 'key'. If you find an interior cab door unlocked it would be worthwhile to mention it to the guard or driver, someone's being slack.
     
  7. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    My mistake.

    As the guards kept walking through (at stations), I assumed they were aware.
     
  8. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Wow, you'd think the cab door would be a standard thing for CAF and that such flaws would long since be designed out.
     
  9. Llama

    Llama Established Member

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    CAF didn't make the cab doors. The firm that made them is understood to have never made any cheaper doors. We've had problems with those doors coming open in service and the mechanism to get in the doors is just comical.
     
  10. craigybagel

    craigybagel Established Member

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    Interesting solution! If you don't have the bodged key how do you access the train on depot or in other places where the doors might be locked?

    Opening is fine, but Northern are against their guards closing the doors from the front for some reason
     
  11. Llama

    Llama Established Member

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    If you don't have the key, you don't take the unit. It's possible to get in with a T-key at a cleaners door switch but that's not good enough to take the unit out in case you end up having to get down on the ballast while out and about.
     
  12. ic31420

    ic31420 Member

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    Anyone willing to share a picture of a Frankenstein key?
     
  13. fulmar

    fulmar Member

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    Sorry, sharing a picture of a key designed to access a secure space would not be appropriate.
     
  14. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Indeed, it's possible to make a copy of a key from a picture.

    It could presumably be shared with the actual edge blanked out, though.
     
  15. craigybagel

    craigybagel Established Member

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    Interesting. Judging by the photos WMR have gone for electric cab doors on their 196s, but the drawings I've seen suggest the TfW 197s have the same manual doors as the Northern units. Hopefully they'll find a better way of opening the doors by then then a bodged t key.....
     
  16. NorthernAspect

    NorthernAspect Member

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    They are actually designed to be opened with a drivers master key, the problem being that the lock mechanism is so stiff that there isn't enough leverage on the 'handle' of a drivers key to be able to open them (unless you're very strong).

    The makeshift T-Keys are no longer issued, there is a version now made by CAF, issued with a brief of "just use the cab door key end, the square end is liable to break off if you use it".
     
  17. craigybagel

    craigybagel Established Member

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    I'd be lying if I said that filled me with confidence....
     
  18. Llama

    Llama Established Member

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    Interesting to hear that there are official keys now, however flimsy, I won't hold my breath though.

    And as I said upthread, it can need enough force to get in these doors that it actually bends a drivers key.
     
  19. NorthernAspect

    NorthernAspect Member

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    Standard railway afterthought of a solution to a problem.
    Yes the official ones aren't holding up too well. Ones that have been used only a handful of times are showing wear already. Unlike T-Keys/Drivers keys that we all tend to have a few spares of, we've been issued one each so if it gets dropped, lost or actually breaks in service then they're going to have problems.
     
  20. Edders23

    Edders23 Member

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    Are there not second keys at depots for use in such a situation there must be more than one per train surely ?
     
  21. NorthernAspect

    NorthernAspect Member

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    One per driver is issued on a personal basis. There may be spares but they are not as freely available at depot level as other keys are. I guess that may change in future but certainly as an initial roll out supplies are limited.
     
  22. LowLevel

    LowLevel Established Member

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    Sounds like a right load or rubbish. I'd be quite annoyed if I had to wait for a driver to turn up to gain access to my own train!

    I can see why using t keys is undesirable from a security perspective but the driver's master key was never really designed for exerting torque in that manner, it seems a bit daft.

    Something along the lines of a HST/170 Kaba security key with a normal lock would have been far more sensible.
     
  23. NorthernAspect

    NorthernAspect Member

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    It's only really from sidings first thing that the guard needs the driver for access. From platform level there is a separate egress via the passenger doors for the guard/cleaners and anyone else.

    But I do agree with you. There must've been a better alternative.
     
  24. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

    Seriously? They can't even make a T-key properly?

    Cheap as...
     
  25. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Or the lock just unlocks it, then you use a handle to exert the force to open it. Like, er, just about every uPVC door in the country, then.

    If they find this difficult, it's entirely understandable why e.g. decent-riding bogies are beyond them.
     
  26. ed1971

    ed1971 Member

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    Considering that BREL could make 'decent-riding bogies' in the late 1970s, I don't know why we can't have them four decades later.
     
  27. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    It's disappointing that, other than the Class 221, every single train built since the Class 158 has had a significantly worse ride.
     
  28. TH172341

    TH172341 Member

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    Does not surprise me really with the key or software situation based on my experience with CAF!

    172s and 710s I find ride very well and 170s whilst not as good as 158s, are fine. Hitachis are okay aside from when faced with poor track quality or pointwork at high speed. CAF by far the worse, very jiggly and unsettled. Is laughable how the quality can go backwards when a 150 rides better than a 195.
     
  29. childwallblues

    childwallblues Established Member

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    195001 and 195117 were on the 1350 MIA-LIV and 1516 return today.
     
  30. superkev

    superkev Established Member

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    The poor 195s (and 331) ride and banging, presumably from the bogie bump stops, does not bear well for long life.
    Ian Warmsley in this months Modern railways says that inside frame bogies ride worse than older outside frame designs for some reason. He also was of the view that using inside frame on the CAF Scottish sleepers, where there have been rumours of spilled whisky and disturbed sleep, was criminal.
    I hope CAF can eventually alter some parameters to improve things.
    K
     

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