Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates

[theblackwatch]

Are we saying that the curves are tighter in the UK than anywhere else in Europe where CAF trains operate?

 

[quantinghome]

Exactly, our railway system can never be made compatible with the rest of Europe. I suspect this may actually be a key reason for our poor fit in the EU. For instance, it is significantly easier for continental countries to export stock to us than us to them, but the common competition laws never took account of this, leading to a shrinkage of train building in this country.

It was more the 1000 day hiatus in ordering new trains when the railways were privatised. No industry can survive that.

 

[Roast Veg]

Are we saying that the curves are tighter in the UK than anywhere else in Europe where CAF trains operate?

Or perhaps we operate tighter curves at higher speeds in passenger service, instead of just within yards?

 

[LOL The Irony]

However 333s also throw wobbles whenever they're attempted to be coupled.
That's probably just down to the fact that they aren't regularly used in doubled up formations.
Sam

The issue is with the internal bar couplings, not the external Dellner's(?).

 

[MisterT]

Key difference is that the CAF Civity for other European countries uses Jacobs bogies, which means that the internal coupler bar is specially designed for the UK version.

 

[anamyd]

Key difficult is that the CAF Civity for other European countries uses Jacobs bogies, which means that the internal coupler bar is specially designed for the UK version.

"designed for the UK version" = basically a "quick fix", with clearly not enough research having gone into it...?

 

[Wtloild]

I have no idea what the definition of a tight curve is but I would have thought both Farington and Todmorden curves probably fall into that category.

Isn't Ordsal Chord quite tight?

 

[TBSchenker]

Not particularly. 30mph .

The East and West curves at Lowton Jn off the Chat Moss are tight, they're 20mph .

Even the line to the Airport, Heald Green West Jn curves are tight and they're 40 .

But usually depots are where you find the tightest, and they're 5mph.

 

[AMD]

Try Accrington, it's 10mph and 142s periodically stall on it.

 

[Eccles1983]

Brewery curve is even tighter and that's a 10. I have fell foul of that and got stuck......

 

[Llama]

Testing/training on 195s hopefully to resume next week on restricted routes (straighter ones!)

 

[Bertie the bus]

Straighter routes than the West Coast Main Line!? Oh dear. Things are going well.

 

[anamyd]

Testing/training on 195s hopefully to resume next week on restricted routes (straighter ones!)

has anything been done about the dangerously restrictive internal bar coupling boxes...?

 

[Llama]

No, hence the restricted routes.

 

[anamyd]

No, hence the restricted routes.

what's the point in continuing testing without first having fixed the dangerous flaw...?

 

[Llama]

Because the mitigation is to keep the unit on very specific routes where the 'flaw' is not an issue - down to ensuring that certain lines (crossovers, sidings, loops etc) are not used. Not every unit was affected to the extent of needing repairs before they were all stopped.

 

[Mathew S]

Because the mitigation is to keep the unit on very specific routes where the 'flaw' is not an issue - down to ensuring that certain lines (crossovers, sidings, loops etc) are not used. Not every unit was affected to the extent of needing repairs before they were all stopped.

Presumably, though, the issue will still have to be sorted before they enter service? On the proposed Barrow/Windermere route, for example, there's Parkside Junction which is very tight.

 

[Philip]

Presumably, though, the issue will still have to be sorted before they enter service? On the proposed Barrow/Windermere route, for example, there's Parkside Junction which is very tight.

Suppose they can continue running through Bolton until the problem is fixed.

 

[Mathew S]

Suppose they can continue running through Bolton until the problem is fixed.

Not sure there's capacity with the EMU Blackpool & TPE Scotland services switching.

 

[jonesy3001]

what was the curve between hollinwood and oldham like in a drivers prospective, could always tell when a train was coming with the screeching of a pacer.

 

[Llama]

The issue will be unlikely to be tight curves on running lines themselves, which regardless of how tight the curve is, will probably still be well within the capability of the units even with their out-of-spec bar couplers. These curves usually also have a transition leading both in and away from the curve.

However, next time you are on a train which traverses crossovers (especially ladder crossovers) have a look at how much the throw the vehicle ends go through as the unit snakes across. And there are far tighter crossovers, points and curves on depots and sidings than there are out on the main line.

 

[Llama]

what was the curve between hollinwood and oldham like in a drivers prospective, could always tell when a train was coming with the screeching of a pacer.

It was pretty much the same radius as Miles Platting on the Ashton lines, also the same speed (30mph) and a significant gradient.

 

[anamyd]

Presumably, though, the issue will still have to be sorted before they enter service?

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Llama]

That's right, and it is likely to take a couple of months.

 

[childwallblues]

As all 195/331 are based at Edge Hill Depot for testing will the Depot curvature affect this?

 

[GrimShady]

Anyone else of the the opinion that Northern should be aiming to replace all of the sprinters with 195s?

 

[td97]

Anyone else of the the opinion that Northern should be aiming to replace all of the sprinters with 195s?

Nope, story for a different thread but I'm of the opinion that they should be replaced with cascaded EMUs (350/2 etc.) through further electrification. 6 years (franchise renewal in 2025) is enough time for another project of Manchester-Blackpool scale...
Keep the 156/158/170/769 and present order of 195s for the lines that remain diesel

 

[AMD]

Anyone else of the the opinion that Northern should be aiming to replace all of the sprinters with 195s?

The question would be where's they money going to come from?
As it stands the current 195 fleet is largely only coming because of political pressure to remove the pacers from service, as the bean counters had deemed it uneconomic to buy new trains ahead of the current franchise being let, but the government stated that the pacers would go.

 

[Inox]

BREAKING NEWS

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/new...eet-delayed-after-engineers-discover-a-fault/

A problem was found in Northern’s 98 trains, built by Spanish train manufacturer CAF in Irun and Zaragoza, which have been undergoing testing since the first unit arrived in the UK in late 2018.

The Bolton News understands that a problem with the coupling mechanism which connect one unit to another caused engineers to become concerned about the cornering on sharp bends.

thought it was the intermediate coupler, but obviously, i was wrong.

 

[LOL The Irony]

BREAKING NEWS

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/new...eet-delayed-after-engineers-discover-a-fault/

thought it was the intermediate coupler, but obviously, i was wrong.

TBH I wouldn't trust a local rag until someone from Northern confirms it.