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Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates

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AlexNL

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I have no idea what new train approval by the ORR involves but it won’t mean they are ready for service.
Approval by ORR means that they consider the trains compliant with the Railway Group Standards and that they see no objections to conveying passengers in them. It does indeed not mean that the operator is ready to use them.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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CAF will be extremely keen to be paid for their trains.
If they are accepted by the ROSCO and the TOC, they will be on lease, whether they are in service or not.
It's not just management pressure on Northern, it's the financial impact of not earning money from their new trains (while having to paying for the old ones as well as the new).
We can't judge if any trains are formally accepted yet, but if they are they will have to be paid for.
The same applies to TPE's new trains.
 

507021

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Apparently four carriages were delivered last week, does anyone know if they were two 195/0s or a 331/1?

Thanks.
 

evoluzione

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If the rumour mill is correct, our friends over at Newton Heath put 195001 through the wash before properly reading the instruction manual.

195001 is now a Demic awaiting repair.
 
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superkev

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If the rumour mill is correct, our friends over at Newton Heath put 195001 through the wash before properly reading the instruction manual.

195001 is now a Demic awaiting repair.
Strange one as I believe there's only a handfull of Northern people, managers and trainers perhaps, who can drive them. One handle to drive rather than two with proportional rather than stepped control. Lot different to Heath Robinson's usual ancient menagerie.
Northern management don't seem to shine to me with little in place when all these new trains have started arriving. No training, no depot no nothing. Looks like fire fighting management.
K
 

Chris217

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Seen a pair of unidentified 195s on test
going through Huyton 2 weeks ago.
It was about 11.10pm going towards Rainhill. I was driving my bus at the time.
Seen a few on Edge Hill depot along with 2x331s.
None on Allerton though.
There was a 323 on Allerton!
But only as visible as I could see it from the overbridge at South Parkway.

Wish I could get out a bit more tbh
Then I can keep up to date.
Good job there's loads to read on here.
 

Clip

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Obviously Northern will blame CAF, but I do wonder how much of the delay could be attributed to Northern, i.e. the whole farce training drivers, with a deal to enable driver training still reported not to have been agreed with ASLEF.
Faulty windscreen wipers sounds like a month max to fix, not 6.

But the report(if taken as the gospel) states this

However, spokesman Glyn Hallam told RAIL on December 14 that this was no longer happening, with the trains delayed due to various mechanical issues discovered during testing.
 

Bertie the bus

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If the rumour mill is correct, our friends over at Newton Heath put 195001 through the wash before properly reading the instruction manual.

195001 is now a Demic awaiting repair.
At least the experience won’t have an effect on the internal cleaning of trains. Newton Heath hasn’t attempted that since the 1980s.
 

driver_m

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Probably come into contact and ended up rustwelded with the remains of a long lost 104 if its been sent through this mythical NH wash road nonsense that you lot speak of.
 

td97

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I hope @Gems won't mind me copying across these really informative posts from the DOO thread to here; including some of the reasons for the delayed 195/331 introduction and some of the advanced new operational systems on the trains.
Absolutely fascinating conversation with a manager who is playing a huge part in testing and setting up the new units. Opened my eyes to a whole new chain of thought and perspective, and not in a negative way.
The leasing company will not yet do the deal with CAF because at this moment in time there are some issues, but not major issues. This has knocked back the passenger service launch date and risks further chaos in any new timetable changes next May. (Northern management take note)

Mechanically there is no major mechanical issues with either type of units. But the software is constantly having to be updated. There has been software issues with coupled units not talking to each other.

The ADOS system although very good has a few issues to be sorted. Many of 'Networkrails' figures for platform lengths have been proved wrong, and every platform has had to be measured again.

The cameras will only come on when the screen is touched. They can also be viewed from the rear cab which in some instances would be a massive bonus. Unlike some units the cameras switch off at 13MPH and not when the train takes power. This could alarm ASLEF a little because at Leeds 13MPH is the end of the platforms. If the cameras are on and a incident occurs as the train is pulling away, it could potentially lead to questions like, why did you not notice it. But overall from someone like myself who takes PTI seriously, the fact that they are on to 13MPH settles some doubts.

The ADOS system is set up using the trains headcode. The units have to be set up whilst in multiple to every station they will call at. At the moment it is being set up for the Barrow to Manchester route, and Blackpool to Manchester Airport. If the system should fail though, the consequences are a little unknown. It also raises questions as to what would happen should a train be given additional calls whilst on route. There is also a little uncertainty should a train over shoot a platform. Of course these issues are mostly whilst in multi, and much testing is yet to be completed.

These are just some of the teething issues at the moment.

These units are the most comfortable units in the Northern fleet by a mile.
ADOS is the selective door opening system. I was trying to get my head around what I was being told. It is very high tech compared to some earlier systems it seems. It works in conjunction with other systems. Not sure how many Northern passengers will deal with it though, they are not used to this form of technology that is for sure. But I am quite impressed with it's capabilities.
I think what we all have to realise is that Northern is not Southern, we don't have the infrastructure and every station and platform can be different. This system should work better for that situation.

Thanks for providing such a useful insight. Myself and many others are looking forward to seeing them in service.

(I have omitted most of the DOO opinions/details copying these across. The original posts in the DOO thread can be accessed by clicking the ↑ if anyone wants to see the full posts, or feels the need to discuss anything related to DOO)
 

Llama

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The ASDO system is hardly high-tech, it is a cheap version which relies on input from the driver when initially setting up the cab at the beginning of a journey and as far as I am aware there is no way of it dealing with special stop orders, platform alterations etc
 

childwallblues

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Seen a pair of unidentified 195s on test
going through Huyton 2 weeks ago.
It was about 11.10pm going towards Rainhill. I was driving my bus at the time.
Seen a few on Edge Hill depot along with 2x331s.
None on Allerton though.
There was a 323 on Allerton!
But only as visible as I could see it from the overbridge at South Parkway.

Wish I could get out a bit more tbh
Then I can keep up to date.
Good job there's loads to read on here.

195103/105 have been reported as transferring to Allerton but are hidden behind othe units.
 

1VWC

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195/331 are currently set up differently re camera timings and require software tweaks.
331 turn off at 13mph and do not turn on until at a stand (or shortly before). 195's the opposite way round. Arguments for both options but I believe are being standardised to 195 option (for now).
Useful feature (for me) is that you can view the rear forward facing camera when shunting.

Ref ASDO, if the system doesn't recognise where you are it will not allow any door release and will ask for driver actions. There always has to be a failsafe - this is it.
Inputting the headcode into the train will download all the required info (ASDO, PIS etc) and it will be realtime - it is fed from DARWIN which control 'should' update so in the event of SSO the PIS will show the stops and also the ASDO system should therefore recognise where you are and allow door release. All this is irrelevant though as guards will be doing the doors on introduction.
 

Cletus

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If the rumour mill is correct, our friends over at Newton Heath put 195001 through the wash before properly reading the instruction manual.

195001 is now a Demic awaiting repair.

Would that have been 195001 at Newton Heath today?
 

Eccles1983

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It's also nonsense. It hasn't been put through any wash road. It filled with water as a seal wasn't fitted correctly and it absolutely hosed down and filled with water.
 

Llama

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It can be seen from close inspection that 195001 hasn't been washed so that rumour can be put to bed. It also hasn't turned a wheel since the rainwater ingress incident. The training course content for 195/331 has not yet been finalised and agreed, Northern hope that that will happen this week.
 

Mogster

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Is this a serious problem? How much damage has the water caused?

Is this likely to be a long term problem or is it an easy fix were a seal hasn’t been fitted or not fitted properly?

As others have said spraying water on the train at the factory would seem an obvious check.
 

Bertie the bus

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When the Pendolinos were first introduced I was travelling 1st Class on a Sunday and rain water started flooding in through the roof. The carriage was empty so I moved but poor quality train build is nothing new or particularly unusual.
 

Iskra

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When the Pendolinos were first introduced I was travelling 1st Class on a Sunday and rain water started flooding in through the roof. The carriage was empty so I moved but poor quality train build is nothing new or particularly unusual.

I believe that is the air con. I've seen it happen too.
 

Chester1

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Today's issue of Rail Magazine (869) states that a Northern spokesperson told Rail in December that the 195s and 331s will not enter service until after the May timetable change.
 

chrissawer

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Is this a serious problem? How much damage has the water caused?

When I went past Newton Heath this morning 195001 had both headlights and interior lights switched on so I presume they're looking at it.

But it was still in the same spot it's been in for the last few weeks.
 

mikemcniven

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When I went past Newton Heath this morning 195001 had both headlights and interior lights switched on so I presume they're looking at it.

But it was still in the same spot it's been in for the last few weeks.

Its been moved to Allerton this morning on 5Z91
 

sprinterguy

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Today's issue of Rail Magazine (869) states that a Northern spokesperson told Rail in December that the 195s and 331s will not enter service until after the May timetable change.
Thanks for the update. It's going to be have been "jam tomorrow" regarding new trains for passengers in the North of England for over three years by the time any of the new Northern or TPE fleets even begin to enter service at this rate. Longer still if you also include the new East Coast stock. I'm accustomed to the glacial pace of progress on the railway, but what's even more frustrating is the seeming inability of any operator to meet their announced deadlines for the introduction of new stock.
 
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