Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates

[Jonfun]

Took the 18:15 ex Lime Street today; air con, plug sockets and PIS weren't working in my carriage. Random alarms blasting down the PA at Lime Street and again at South Parkway, where the doors closed as soon as they'd opened and trapped some poor old lady trying to get on with her suitcase. Ten minutes sitting there, with a full reboot fixing the problem and allowing us on our way.

The unit on my way back had working air-con and PIS but continued to have door problems.

The seats are rock hard; on the plus side the windows are big and they don't half get going from a standing start.

I can't say I'm overly impressed, though I've no doubt the issues (aside from the appalling choice of seats) will be resolved in time.

 

[darylyates17]

Having had a run between Lime Street and South Parkway and back my first impressions are that they are a massive step up from the 156s, the 195s seem to be very quiet for a DMU I will have a proper run from Lime Street to Manchester Airport soon to get more familiar with the units before having a true opinion on them. Another thing I noticed is that the brakes felt quiet strong but this might be just be me obviously teething issues will happen at first as with most new rolling stock.

 

[anamyd]

They're not gangway doors on a 156 but fire doors, unless your thinking of the 150's that have gangway doors

what's the difference...? If I recall correctly, both 150s and 156s have inter-carriage doors that flap around annoyingly if people don't close them after using them

 

[aswilliamsuk]

Great shots as ever there, @mikemcniven .

The thing I really like about these units? The clear, legible destination displays. Too many are specified at the minimum size (the one failing of the 710s, frankly), and this appears to make maximum use of the space where there is no gangway connection.

 

[fowler9]

I was on 195102 with 195120 on the way from Parkway to Lime Street at about 1800, it was running a bit late as running behind a pair of pacers on the stopper that was late. Really impressed, seats were a bit hard and the brakes a bit loud but other than that spacious, big windows with seats lined up to them, pleasant lighting, good PIS screens. A real step up in most ways from what has gone before. The last time I rode a brand new train on the CLC route was close on 30 years ago. Loved the new car smell.

 

[Chris217]

The Pacers were in fact delayed because of 195120 & 102 as they left about 7 late on the 15.16 departure. and were slightly delayed again at South Parkway with 'slow doors' on 120. I was on the 195s.

I must say...I quite like them.
Hope Northern can sort out all the niggles.
First days are always challenging tbh.

One question regarding coupling issues.
Why weren't these ever tested in pairs?
It might have improved their introduction

 

[Greybeard33]

Off the topic, but Christ, didn't the driver enter the platform at a high speed!
Perhaps when the brakes are smoother, then such overshooting will not occur, whilst being able to save time by not crawling into the platform, as done previously.

I was on 195119 when it overshot the platform at Mauldeth Road (1550 ex-Manchester Airport). The braking seemed normal and smooth, so I suspect it was just driver misjudgement/unfamiliarity. We had left the Airport 9L and the driver was presumably trying to make up time. Unfortunately the incident caused further delay while alighting passengers made their way to the rear of the train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Should hope the brake squeal will go after more running.

If they're sintered metal it won't. The 175s and 180s squeal like the day they were built.

 

[Bletchleyite]

what's the difference...? If I recall correctly, both 150s and 156s have inter-carriage doors that flap around annoyingly if people don't close them after using them

No, 156s don't. They have sliding doors between the vestibule and the saloon, and normal doors between the coaches, all of which are normally left open.

 

[anamyd]

No, 156s don't. They have sliding doors between the vestibule and the saloon, and normal doors between the coaches, all of which are normally left open.

oops. I've been on one 156 once in the last 20 years or so (156-460 in 2018) and have been on relatively more 150s.

 

[anamyd]

If they're sintered metal it won't. The 175s and 180s squeal like the day they were built.

I've not ever heard 175 brakes squeal.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've not ever heard 175 brakes squeal.

180s are noisier, but unless they've swapped them 175s are still noisy.

 

[geoffk]

The seats are rock hard; on the plus side the windows are big and they don't half get going from a standing start.

I can't say I'm overly impressed, though I've no doubt the issues (aside from the appalling choice of seats) will be resolved in time.

With modern train seats being hard, there could be a good business opportunity for someone making small inflatable cushions, a bit like the travel pillows used on planes!

 

[route101]

Anyone know if they are working weekend diagrams?

 

[craigybagel]

The ex ScotRail 156s are fitted with door controls in the middle.

Lots of TOCs have units with extra door controls fitted. Northern is pretty unique in trying to make it as difficult as possible for their guards to try and carry out revenue and customer service duties. But that's going off topic.

I would assume that the same rules the use for their other units will apply here. No dispatch from anywhere near the front - regardless of how many door panels are fitted.

180s are noisier, but unless they've swapped them 175s are still noisy.

Been working 175s for 6 years, and that's complete nonsense. 175 brakes very rarely squeal - no more then any mother modern unit, and definitely completely incomparable with 180s.

Watching that video of the overshoot at Mauldeth Road made it sound like the 195s have some form of dynamic braking?

 

[Greybeard33]

Today I rode on 195102, 116, 118, 119 and 121. I sat in different coaches/seat rows on each journey.

First impressions:

• Acceleration quite sprightly for a DMU, through the whole speed range
• Very little engine noise in the saloon
• Bogies/suspension rattly/clattery, particularly noticeable towards the ends of the carriage, some worse than others
• Intermittent electric motor whining noise (aircon?) from the roof, especially intrusive towards the middle of the carriage
• Seats firm but good legroom, window alignment variable but mostly ok
• The toilet and wheelchair/cycle stowage occupy a third of Coach A at the gangway end - plenty of space for standees there
• Ride quality poor IMO - an annoying propensity for lateral lurching/jerking motion and firm suspension that emphasises every bump in the track (all units)
• Gear changes smooth although the transmission seems "fussy", changing up or down whenever the power demand changes slightly. It changes down during braking to keep the engine revs high - very different from a Voith "freewheeling"
• Brakes squeal only at low speed when coming to a stand
• Aircon and wifi work well. Saloon lighting gives a nice ambience
• PIS screen visibility good from table seats, but from the airline seats on the same side of the aisle you have to peer around the headrest of the seat in front
• Curious abbreviations of station names to enable use of a large font on the screen - letters omitted seemingly at random, e.g. "Barrw-in-Frnss"
• I saw the wheelchair ramp in use and it worked well with a large electric wheelchair
• Northern staff in evidence on several journeys, sitting in the saloon taking notes and/or moving around answering passengers' questions
• Plenty of enthusiasts/spotters about, taking photos on the platforms and riding on the trains

Minor issues that need sorting, already reported by others:

• Door release problems that seemed to randomly afflict different doors at different stops on several units. The crew always managed to get them all released in the end, but it caused extended dwell times
• The red "Door out of use" lights (internal and external) were on whenever the doors were not released. This confused boarding passengers, who thought they had to move to another door
• The doors reclosed on me as I was alighting from 102 at Oxford Road
• The PIS screens were not working on 102, although the auto announcements were
• The "connections at next stop" page on the PIS screen kept getting "stuck", e.g. what it said would be the connections at Wigan North Western, northbound, were actually the connections at Manchester Airport from the previous southbound working

Overall I think this was a pretty successful first day for a brand new class of train, and they are a big improvement on the refurbished 150/155/156/158s. But I do worry that their capacity will prove inadequate working as solo 3-car units on these routes. Even the off peak services were well loaded, with few empty seats west/north of Oxford Road. The 1550 Airport to Lime Street was full and standing departing Oxford Road. And 2x2-car formations will only have 44 more seats than a single 3-car, because of all the space occupied by the duplicated toilets and wheelchair spaces in each unit.

 

[palmersears]

195114 for me this morning, and things are improved from yesterday. Whilst door release is still a little slow (understandably given guards are still getting use to releasing them) they are now working properly throughout. The PIS and announcements are working well, with surprisingly informative rolling screens of info. I've not seen a connections screen though. The window alignment in the very front third is much better, but is offset a little by the slightly rougher ride being directly over the bogies. Wifi was publicized over the PA by the guard, but doesn't appear to work.

A great improvement on yesterday.

 

[whhistle]

Today I rode on 195102, 116, 118, 119 and 121. I sat in different coaches/seat rows on each journey.

Forum needs a like button, so I can "like" your post to say thanks for posting and encouraging you to post more like it.

 

[samuelmorris]

Forum needs a like button, so I can "like" your post to say thanks for posting and encouraging you to post more like it.

It did, but I believe it was removed due to abuse.

Watching that video of the overshoot at Mauldeth Road made it sound like the 195s have some form of dynamic braking?

As far as I know it's just engine braking via the transmission as you'd get in a bus or most other road vehicles, unless there's something else I'm not aware of? I can't explain the brakes not squealing at higher speeds with engine braking alone.

 

[trainmananthon]

Onboard 195118 form Barrow in Furness yesterday evening. What a fantastic unit they are!

 

[fowler9]

Just on 195120 again from South Parkway to Manchester Airport. Fun and games at Parkway as the guards still seem to be having trouble releasing the doors. The passengers around me just muttered about teething troubles and said what nice trains they are. I'm an old fart who prefers loco hauled coaching stock but these are really nice trains, especially when you consider that some passengers from the Airport to Lime Street the week before last were on a single pacer. It is almost laughable .

 

[Chris217]

When 195102 was backing onto 120 at
Lime Street yesterday,it seemed the acceleration from stop was far too quick for the tiny distance it needed to go to couple up resulting in a very fast bang!
Almost scary tbh.

I take it all the same ones will be out again today?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Onboard 195118 form Barrow in Furness yesterday evening. What a fantastic unit they are!

Do you work for the Cumbria Tourist Board?!
Excellent picture.
We haven't had any from the Windermere branch yet.

 

[Fez14]

How long is it likely to be before all services on the chosen routes are operated by 195s?

Ie if I book from Liverpool to Manchester when can it be guaranteed as a 195?

 

[td97]

Took one to Windermere today (trip booked before 195s were confirmed). Very impressed - these are fantastic units. Guard was completely clued up with door operation. Will post full impressions/photos later.

 

[PR1Berske]

Onboard 195118 form Barrow in Furness yesterday evening. What a fantastic unit they are!

View attachment 65142

That's a brilliant shot!

 

[Foggycorner]

With modern train seats being hard, there could be a good business opportunity for someone making small inflatable cushions, a bit like the travel pillows used on planes!

When I made the same comment on here about having a blow up cushion with you for the hard seats it was removed by the forum police as not being relevant to the thread.
having traveled all the way from Oxford Road to Barrow yesterday morning I thought the seats were firm but not hard and didn't suffer from numb bum at the end of the trip so my idea of hard seats must be different to some people on here

 

[Foggycorner]

Yesterday on the Barrow service I noted the Guard using the mid coach door control panels at some stations and on the whole trip he also managed to check tickets etc

 

[EE Andy b1]

When 195102 was backing onto 120 at
Lime Street yesterday,it seemed the acceleration from stop was far too quick for the tiny distance it needed to go to couple up resulting in a very fast bang!
Almost scary tbh.

I was there watching as were plenty other people, it might have seemed a bit faster than normal coupling but nothing scary at all.
Apparently 195s couple automatically.

 

[Chris217]

Ha,it was a big bang wasnt it lol.
I'm sure it wasnt meant to be?