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Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates

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Roast Veg

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195s out and about between Sheffield and Nottingham, one stabled at Sheffield this evening.
 
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Xenophon PCDGS

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Same thing happened in Hebden Bridge tonight. 3 carriage 195 in an extended platform and passengers worried they weren’t going to be able to get off. The conductor told me he thought it was happening “because it thinks it’s a 6 carriage train” which strikes me as nonsense because of that was the case it would’ve happened elsewhere on the route

Just as a matter of interest, since Hebden Bridge was given its platform extensions, how many unit carriages can it accommodate these days?
 

YorksDMU

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I saw 195105 arriving at York at 14.00 as I was coming into York, on a 155 from Beverley.
The photo’ was taken from the 155 so please excuse the interior lights showing.

A58FADA5-A585-4D8A-9158-3D575ECD3241.jpeg
 

YorksDMU

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It was arriving from Blackpool, it was interesting to see it. Later on, at 16.15, I saw a two car refurbished class 158 on that service at platform seven.
 

ohgoditsjames

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Will all of the 195's that will operate in and out of Sheffield be 2 car? The Leeds to Nottingham via Sheffield was a 2 car and the Leeds to Lincoln via Sheffield was a 2 car.
 

Freemo

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Will all of the 195's that will operate in and out of Sheffield be 2 car? The Leeds to Nottingham via Sheffield was a 2 car and the Leeds to Lincoln via Sheffield was a 2 car.
I don't think there's room for 3 on Leeds Platform 17 (as they stack up with the stoppers). If the plan to run the Nottinghams through to Bradford emerges then I guess they'd be on a different platform and 3s could be used.
 

222001

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Will all of the 195's that will operate in and out of Sheffield be 2 car? The Leeds to Nottingham via Sheffield was a 2 car and the Leeds to Lincoln via Sheffield was a 2 car.

Nottingham / Lincolns will be yes. 158s will continue to operate in the peak on that route - which is most certainly a good thing seeing as 2 car 195s have around 20 less seats than a 2 car 158.
The fast Hull services are supposed to be 195 in the end - but not sure if that will happen now. Are there any other 195 routes planned through Sheffield?
 

jfowkes

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Concerning post 3724 and bikes on 195/331 units - if you are wanting to put your bike on these, when the train rolls in look at the yellow panel on the front of the train, and if there is a black blob on the same level but on the opposite side to the unit number, that's the wrong end. It's bikes at one end and wheelchairs at the other end of the train, and the black blob is to notify platform staff which is the wheelchair end. So bikes go at the non-blob end. And I agree the tiny signs on the doors are useless.

That's very useful thanks!

Not sure it's useful for me right now as the station I use is unlit and at night the headlights basically make seeing anything on the front of the train impossible. But in daylight, this is good knowledge to have.

Also, I think that the bike space symbols on the doors are on their own and every other symbol is in a group of two. So just look for the door that has a solitary white square. Not sure if this is 100% reliable.
 
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chrissawer

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Just as a matter of interest, since Hebden Bridge was given its platform extensions, how many unit carriages can it accommodate these days?

I believe all stations on the Calder Valley line including Hebden Bridge were extended to accept 5x 23m trains.

I saw a 5-carriage 195 arrive from the line at Manchester Victoria earlier this week and all 5 carriages were in use.
I have seen a 6-carriage 195 a couple of times on the line, Sunday evenings I think, but only 3 carriages were in use.

The incorrect announcement about the train being too long happens quite often at Hebden Bridge and does cause confusion. I'm sure I've heard it in other places as well.
 

J-2739

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I don't think there's room for 3 on Leeds Platform 17 (as they stack up with the stoppers). If the plan to run the Nottinghams through to Bradford emerges then I guess they'd be on a different platform and 3s could be used.
They could be operated coupled to make 4 cars, on the Nottinghams? They already do this sometimes with the 158s.
 

childwallblues

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I believe all stations on the Calder Valley line including Hebden Bridge were extended to accept 5x 23m trains.

I saw a 5-carriage 195 arrive from the line at Manchester Victoria earlier this week and all 5 carriages were in use.
I have seen a 6-carriage 195 a couple of times on the line, Sunday evenings I think, but only 3 carriages were in use.

The incorrect announcement about the train being too long happens quite often at Hebden Bridge and does cause confusion. I'm sure I've heard it in other places as well.
I was on 319372 coming in to Preston Platfom 6 on Tuesday when it was announced that the rear door would not open as the platform was too short. The train was four carriages and the platform takes 11 car Pendolinos
 

Llama

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Was the platform occupied by another train before your train arrived?
 

thejuggler

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I believe all stations on the Calder Valley line including Hebden Bridge were extended to accept 5x 23m trains.

I saw a 5-carriage 195 arrive from the line at Manchester Victoria earlier this week and all 5 carriages were in use.
I have seen a 6-carriage 195 a couple of times on the line, Sunday evenings I think, but only 3 carriages were in use.

The incorrect announcement about the train being too long happens quite often at Hebden Bridge and does cause confusion. I'm sure I've heard it in other places as well.

I was on a 5 carriage yesterday between Bradford and Leeds, the same (late again) service today was just 2 carriages! It was packed.

Please Northern add some grab handles in the door lobby area. There is nothing to hold onto and the brakes are very grabby to the point of being dangerous if you have nothing to hold on to.
 

SteveM70

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Please Northern add some grab handles in the door lobby area. There is nothing to hold onto and the brakes are very grabby to the point of being dangerous if you have nothing to hold on to.

All part of their cunning plan. When the passengers are packed in like sardines they have no room to fall over
 

Class195

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I was on a 5 carriage yesterday between Bradford and Leeds, the same (late again) service today was just 2 carriages! It was packed.

Please Northern add some grab handles in the door lobby area. There is nothing to hold onto and the brakes are very grabby to the point of being dangerous if you have nothing to hold on to.

I'm glad you've picked up on the brakes. It's a most unpleasant experience being jolted around when coming down the hill into Bradford Interchange.

Even more so off the Leeds branch line because of the curve.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Noting recent comments about standing passenger discomforts at the time of Class 195 brake applications, those who regularly use some of the modern buses and are standing when the driver begins brake application nearing a bus stop are now fully trained in holding on to anything at hand in such circumstances and those who have had parachute training also know how to brace themselves at such times.
 

Tracked

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Had my first journey on one from CHD to SHF this afternoon, interesting, a couple of things stood out:

- It was noisier slowing down to stop than it was starting off from the station, not just the brakes (maybe with it being new they were quite squealy, the 331's don't seem as bad), the engine whine as it slowed down was the main noise.
- Condensation on the door's windows, haven't noticed this in the 331's either
- The door problem, no issues at Dronfield but in Sheffield the doors in the front car wouldn't open

Ride seemed ok, maybe not as smooth as a 170.

Second journey on one last night, packed full of Mad Friday People from CHD due to flooding near Spondon so couldn't hear the engine on slow down, some amusement in the carriage as the announcements were playing one station behind, the guard took over announcing for Sheffield in the end.
 

fulmar

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I'm glad you've picked up on the brakes.....

Even when the power brake controller (PBC) moves smoothly it isn't exactly designed with fine control in mind. Some are also very sloppy, whilst others are very stiff and can only be moved in little "jumps", both of which inhibit fine control.

The brakes also have a few other odd little quirks which don't help. Although the dynamic brake provides most of the braking effort at higher speeds, when the brake is initially applied there is a momentary "burst" of friction brake. The friction brake does seem to be somewhat fiercer than the dynamic brake which can make the initial brake application feel rather harsh.

Also, once speed is down to 25mph and the friction brake takes over all of the braking effort there is a noticeable increase in the amount of retardation even though the PBC remains in the same position. It is sometimes possible to counter this by easing off the brake application around the 25mph mark but it is a little unpredictable and a bit variable between individual units.

As the train comes to a stand there is also a holding brake which applies automatically. In my opinion the holding brake is far too aggressive and can make the final stop rather rough. It is just about possible to do a smooth stop but it is very fiddly and the brake has to be released at precisely the right moment. If it is released just a fraction of a second too early the train runs on for a second or so before the holding brake kicks in as normal which makes the stop even rougher. I don't know why the holding brake is so aggressive. With the other type of unit I have driven that had an automatic holding brake it was still very easy to stop smoothly.
 

Class195

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Even when the power brake controller (PBC) moves smoothly it isn't exactly designed with fine control in mind. Some are also very sloppy, whilst others are very stiff and can only be moved in little "jumps", both of which inhibit fine control.

The brakes also have a few other odd little quirks which don't help. Although the dynamic brake provides most of the braking effort at higher speeds, when the brake is initially applied there is a momentary "burst" of friction brake. The friction brake does seem to be somewhat fiercer than the dynamic brake which can make the initial brake application feel rather harsh.

Also, once speed is down to 25mph and the friction brake takes over all of the braking effort there is a noticeable increase in the amount of retardation even though the PBC remains in the same position. It is sometimes possible to counter this by easing off the brake application around the 25mph mark but it is a little unpredictable and a bit variable between individual units.

As the train comes to a stand there is also a holding brake which applies automatically. In my opinion the holding brake is far too aggressive and can make the final stop rather rough. It is just about possible to do a smooth stop but it is very fiddly and the brake has to be released at precisely the right moment. If it is released just a fraction of a second too early the train runs on for a second or so before the holding brake kicks in as normal which makes the stop even rougher. I don't know why the holding brake is so aggressive. With the other type of unit I have driven that had an automatic holding brake it was still very easy to stop smoothly.

Thank you for such an informative post.

I'm guessing the gradient like at Bradford isn't the main problem then.

Hopefully, with more training and experience on the units, the problem will eventually start to ease away.
 

superkev

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Even when the power brake controller (PBC) moves smoothly it isn't exactly designed with fine control in mind. Some are also very sloppy, whilst others are very stiff and can only be moved in little "jumps", both of which inhibit fine control.

The brakes also have a few other odd little quirks which don't help. Although the dynamic brake provides most of the braking effort at higher speeds, when the brake is initially applied there is a momentary "burst" of friction brake. The friction brake does seem to be somewhat fiercer than the dynamic brake which can make the initial brake application feel rather harsh.

Also, once speed is down to 25mph and the friction brake takes over all of the braking effort there is a noticeable increase in the amount of retardation even though the PBC remains in the same position. It is sometimes possible to counter this by easing off the brake application around the 25mph mark but it is a little unpredictable and a bit variable between individual units.

As the train comes to a stand there is also a holding brake which applies automatically. In my opinion the holding brake is far too aggressive and can make the final stop rather rough. It is just about possible to do a smooth stop but it is very fiddly and the brake has to be released at precisely the right moment. If it is released just a fraction of a second too early the train runs on for a second or so before the holding brake kicks in as normal which makes the stop even rougher. I don't know why the holding brake is so aggressive. With the other type of unit I have driven that had an automatic holding brake it was still very easy to stop smoothly.
Seems the fierce braking when coming to a stand, the continuing problems with the ASDO and the atrocious ride are the only significant problems left with the units. Let's hope some fine tuning of the computer software along with alterations to the bogie settings can cure these.
On less major items the lack of luggage racks/ space, grap handles and improvements to the minuscule hard to find litter bins would be most welcome.
Cant think of much else wrong with them and I'm sure they will be good trains.

As a sideline are the 2 x 3 car units reported parked at Barrow in store? And, what's the hold up with getting the stored units into service.
K
 
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Bovverboy

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As a sideline are the 2 x 3 car units reported parked at Barrow in store? And, what's the hold up with getting the stored units into service.
K

Could you possibly tell me where that report has appeared? I'd be inclined to be mindful of the fact that, even when all diagrams are operating as scheduled, there are times of the day when there should be two 195/1s parked at Barrow, e.g. (Mons to Fris) 1007 to 1046 and 1305 to 1353.
 
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superkev

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Could you possibly tell me where that report has appeared? I'd be inclined to be mindful of the fact that, even when all diagrams are operating as scheduled, there are times of the day when there should be two 195/1s parked at Barrow, e.g. (Mons to Fris) 0934 to 1135 and 1305 to 1353.
Thats probably it them just passing through. Thanks.
It was on here somewhere as was a picture on post 2026 on the pacer withdrawals.
K
Edit. Found it on the 195 initial dgms thread post 773. Units 195 008 and 128.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/northern-class-195-initial-diagrams.185017/page-26#post-4333970
K
 
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Bovverboy

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Could you possibly tell me where that report has appeared? I'd be inclined to be mindful of the fact that, even when all diagrams are operating as scheduled, there are times of the day when there should be two 195/1s parked at Barrow, e.g. (Mons to Fris) 1007 to 1046 and 1305 to 1353.

Thats probably it them just passing through. Thanks.
It was on here somewhere as was a picture on post 2026 on the pacer withdrawals.
K
Edit. Found it on the 195 initial dgms thread post 773. Units 195 008 and 128.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/northern-class-195-initial-diagrams.185017/page-26#post-4333970
K

I now remember seeing the post on the '195 Initial Diagrams' thread. It's quite convincing, with the stock numbers shown. The pic on the 'Pacer Withdrawals' thread is even more convincing, I hadn't seen it since I don't routinely follow that thread.
Northern have their way of doing things.
 

superkev

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Two car 195 011 was very cosy passing through Sowerby bridge around 14.40 on the Chester service.
Saturday before Christmas too. Rubbish Northern.
011 was one of the units I had as in storage at EG. Perhaps more have escaped.
Edit two car 195 003 was also on the late running 1522 at Sowerby Bridge packed in like sardines.
Rubbish. Glad I have a car.
K
 
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palmersears

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There's not an awful lot left on Edge Hill now. Went past yesterday morning at there was a couple of 195s and a couple of 331s. There's been a real clear out over the least week or so.
 

Jamesrob637

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There's not an awful lot left on Edge Hill now. Went past yesterday morning at there was a couple of 195s and a couple of 331s. There's been a real clear out over the least week or so.

That's probably just ones Northern would have there anyway on a Saturday? Although from superkev's post it sounds like Northern need everything out they can get today. Trains which could (just about) get away with being 2-car in the week are much busier than weekdays due to the proximity to Xmas.
 
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