Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates

[palmersears]

Not all smooth and trouble free today, a 195 was derailed at low speed on Edge Hill depot.

Pictures of it on the deck are rather apt considering today's announcement.

Any pointers as to which unit was involved?

 

[ic31420]

Is the plan for all Northern Drivers to be added out on 195s?

If so what sort of percentage are we at now?

 

[Llama]

Any pointers as to which unit was involved?

195021.

 

[Llama]

Is the plan for all Northern Drivers to be added out on 195s?

If so what sort of percentage are we at now?

Not all. Blackburn, Buxton, Newcastle, Darlington, Workington and Carlisle won't sign them. Buxton drivers do 331s. I suspect 60-70% of drivers are trained on 195s now, though there are more to train at some depots than others.

Edit. I'm not sure about Hull drivers. They're too far away from Manchester to remember. Doncaster drivers might just be 331s unless anyone knows better?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Seen a couple of 195s on what appeared to be diversions via Dewsbury from the Bradford Interchange route. Has something gone wrong up that way? I can't find anything on here about it, and they aren't showing on Realtime Trains.

 

[Glenn1969]

Think there has been a signal failiure that has caused delays and cancellations to BDI route services

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Think there has been a signal failiure that has caused delays and cancellations to BDI route services

Thanks.

 

[childwallblues]

Not all. Blackburn, Buxton, Newcastle, Darlington, Workington and Carlisle won't sign them. Buxton drivers do 331s. I suspect 60-70% of drivers are trained on 195s now, though there are more to train at some depots than others.

Edit. I'm not sure about Hull drivers. They're too far away from Manchester to remember. Doncaster drivers might just be 331s unless anyone knows better?

The nearest wires to Buxton are at Hazel Grove which is about 16 miles away. Why do Buxton drivers need to sign 331s?

 

[bengley]

The nearest wires to Buxton are at Hazel Grove which is about 16 miles away. Why do Buxton drivers need to sign 331s?

They work trains to Blackpool

 

[Whisky Papa]

They work trains to Blackpool

Despite the through Buxton - Blackpool service having been split in the December 2008 timetable change!

 

[craigybagel]

They work trains to Blackpool

Despite the through Buxton - Blackpool service having been split in the December 2008 timetable change!

It may well still be the most efficient way of working things. If they were only able to work Manchester - Buxton services it would be harder to make a full days work without a lot of waiting around. Also, the more depots you have working over a route, the easier it is to cover the work (if one depot is short staffed for whatever reason, you can use crew from another depot). Up and down the country there are plenty of examples of depots working services that go nowhere near their depot, or working on types of trains that, like the 331s and Buxton, are either not permitted or not physically capable of working part their depot.

 

[86247]

someone on train logger has reported that 195025 has been seen in Preston today, that means all 195/0 have been delivered with just 195132 and 133 left to come .

 

[superkev]

someone on train logger has reported that 195025 has been seen in Preston today, that means all 195/0 have been delivered with just 195132 and 133 left to come .

I didn't know 195 024 or 131 had arrived.
There was quite a few to enter service. Have any more done so.
K

 

[86247]

just had a look on train logger and 195024 was seen at Preston on the 31/10/19. And 195131 was at Doncaster on be 4/1/20.But I take would take it with a pinch of salt until I see them myself.

 

[palmersears]

Yeah Trainloggger isn't always accurate, often members have input the wrong unit by mistake. I haven't seen 024 at Edge Hill yet, think it's the next one to arrive.

 

[northernchris]

Not all. Blackburn, Buxton, Newcastle, Darlington, Workington and Carlisle won't sign them.

Surprised about Blackburn as thought they had some work on the York - Blackpool's and thought King Street was going to be used for stabling

I'd suspect Skipton and Harrogate won't sign them, and not sure about Huddersfield

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Surprised about Blackburn as thought they had some work on the York - Blackpool's and thought King Street was going to be used for stabling

I'd suspect Skipton and Harrogate won't sign them, and not sure about Huddersfield

I've heard that Huddersfield crews have been passed from pillar to post over 195 training: first they weren't going to sign them, then they were but the training was set to be in Doncaster (despite units being based in Huddersfield sidings for training Manchester crews)...

Not sure what the state of play is now with the Operator of Last Resort set to step in, but stories like that do seem to demonstrate the astronomical level of managerial incompetence at Northern under Arriva.

 

[86247]

yeah people often put the wrong number in as 195131 was reported at worksop last October, but it hadn't been delivered.

 

[craigybagel]

I'd suspect Skipton and Harrogate won't sign them, and not sure about Huddersfield

Skipton I would assume will be like Buxton - will sign 331 but not 195?

 

[LOL The Irony]

Skipton I would assume will be like Buxton - will sign 331 but not 195?

Quick question. Why does Buxton sign 331's when it isn't wired?

 

[JonathanH]

Quick question. Why does Buxton sign 331's when it isn't wired?

It was answered above that the Buxton traincrew sign the route to Blackpool North from the days when the Buxton trains worked through so it makes sense for them to continue their share of work on Hazel Grove to Blackpool North workings.

Is there any reason why Buxton traincrew should only know Buxton to Piccadilly?

 

[northernchris]

I've heard that Huddersfield crews have been passed from pillar to post over 195 training: first they weren't going to sign them, then they were but the training was set to be in Doncaster (despite units being based in Huddersfield sidings for training Manchester crews)...

Not sure what the state of play is now with the Operator of Last Resort set to step in, but stories like that do seem to demonstrate the astronomical level of managerial incompetence at Northern under Arriva.

That's ridiculous! Although does suggest they don't have any booked work on 195 routes at the moment

Skipton I would assume will be like Buxton - will sign 331 but not 195?

I think so, AFAIK the only diesel routes Skipton work are to Carlisle and Morecambe

 

[Llama]

Surprised about Blackburn as thought they had some work on the York - Blackpool's and thought King Street was going to be used for stabling

I'd suspect Skipton and Harrogate won't sign them, and not sure about Huddersfield

Blackburn don't go to Blackpool North or Leeds/York, so unless they took a 158 Blackburn to Preston they wouldn't have had booked work on the Blackpool/Yorks. Now the traction has changed to 195s there's even less likelihood of their drivers signing the routes. The work is already split between Leeds and Blackpool crew, with Man Vic drivers only needing minimal route learning (some sign Leeds to Blackpool N throughout anyway) and already having the traction knowledge. Things change all the time though. The company won't train the 54 Blackburn drivers and the dozen or so depot drivers on 195s, at knocking on for 500 more training days, if they can do without it - which they can for now.

 

[thejuggler]

When they designed the gearbox I wonder why they made a change point at about 30mph?

The hunting at this speed in long 30 limit stretches is terrible and it won't be good for longevity. Up a gear, 30 reached, torque dies, drop a gear, revs rise, speed increases, up a gear, 30 reached, torque drops, drop a gear.

Continue until next speed limit board

 

[Llama]

There transmission will change up/down at varying speeds depending on what the driver has as the 'powerpack' setting, of which there are four different settings.

 

[northernchris]

Blackburn don't go to Blackpool North or Leeds/York, so unless they took a 158 Blackburn to Preston they wouldn't have had booked work on the Blackpool/Yorks. Now the traction has changed to 195s there's even less likelihood of their drivers signing the routes. The work is already split between Leeds and Blackpool crew, with Man Vic drivers only needing minimal route learning (some sign Leeds to Blackpool N throughout anyway) and already having the traction knowledge. Things change all the time though. The company won't train the 54 Blackburn drivers and the dozen or so depot drivers on 195s, at knocking on for 500 more training days, if they can do without it - which they can for now.

Thanks for clarifying, is it Blackpool who work the 2219 York - Blackburn then?

 

[Llama]

Yep, and they probably put it to bed on King Street depot too for good measure then maybe taxi back to Preston or straight to BPN. Leeds drivers don't sign King Street but Blackpool still do as far as I know.

 

[MDB1images]

195020 was on 3Z20 14:59 Edge Hill to Carnforth Fri 31st Jan.

 

[Philip]

Blackburn don't go to Blackpool North or Leeds/York, so unless they took a 158 Blackburn to Preston they wouldn't have had booked work on the Blackpool/Yorks. Now the traction has changed to 195s there's even less likelihood of their drivers signing the routes. The work is already split between Leeds and Blackpool crew, with Man Vic drivers only needing minimal route learning (some sign Leeds to Blackpool N throughout anyway) and already having the traction knowledge. Things change all the time though. The company won't train the 54 Blackburn drivers and the dozen or so depot drivers on 195s, at knocking on for 500 more training days, if they can do without it - which they can for now.

Thought they may have signed them to make them available for Clitheroe workings should the need arise?

 

[Llama]

No, there are no plans to train Blackburn drivers on 195s as things stand, or to diagram 195s on Clitheroes. I believe there is a diagrammed 195 on a Manchester Victoria to Blackburn via Copy Pit service in the evening at the moment, with a booked Manchester Victoria driver. Obviously things change all the time though.