Boysteve
Member
Yes, it was doubled up as it came into Manchester Wilmslow-bound. I did not get the ID, sorry!
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Northern Class 195: Initial Diagrams
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Yes, it was doubled up as it came into Manchester Wilmslow-bound. I did not get the ID, sorry!
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Wigan Wanderer
Member
This afternoon/evening sightings:
Diag 1: cancelled (door fault)
Diag 2: 195119
Diag 3: 195115
Diag 4: 195116
Diag 5: 195114
Diag 6: 195118+195121
Sim
Diag 1: cancelled (door fault)
Diag 2: 195119
Diag 3: 195115
Diag 4: 195116
Diag 5: 195114
Diag 6: 195118+195121
Sim
After a Diagram 6/7 operating as peak time services on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.
The 07:48 from Wilmslow to Liverpool was a double Wednesday, yesterday and today. Although this was the first time since early last week (Monday I think) that it was short-formed of a single unit.
When was the first time since early last week it was formed of a single unit? Don't follow you there, sorry.
Greybeard33
Established Member
Acrobatics already this morning. The 0522 Airport - Barrow was terminated at Oxford Road due to 'a problem with the brakes'. The return from Barrow (0846) was cancelled as far as Preston at this time.
After being sat in P2 at Oxford Road for 22 minutes (and the following three trains using P3) the unit was deemed fit to continue ECS to Preston, where it was parked in platform 4C. Ready to take over its next southbound working? Apparently not, according to RTT a spare unit is being sent from Barrow.
Why is this spare unit being sent ECS? We presume, because there is a spare driver at Barrow but no spare conductor..
This diagram has hitherto been Sprinter-operated, but Sprinters are not noted for having brake problems, so who knows what was working it. We may never know, if it is being substituted.
The first round trip of the day on Liverpool - Airport, 0337 ex-Lime Street and 0551 return, has also been cancelled, reason given being staffing issues. The next journey on the diagram, 0709 Lime Street to Oxford Road, has operated.
After being sat in P2 at Oxford Road for 22 minutes (and the following three trains using P3) the unit was deemed fit to continue ECS to Preston, where it was parked in platform 4C. Ready to take over its next southbound working? Apparently not, according to RTT a spare unit is being sent from Barrow.
Why is this spare unit being sent ECS? We presume, because there is a spare driver at Barrow but no spare conductor..
This diagram has hitherto been Sprinter-operated, but Sprinters are not noted for having brake problems, so who knows what was working it. We may never know, if it is being substituted.
The first round trip of the day on Liverpool - Airport, 0337 ex-Lime Street and 0551 return, has also been cancelled, reason given being staffing issues. The next journey on the diagram, 0709 Lime Street to Oxford Road, has operated.
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Meanwhile, the 0647 Barrow - Airport, has been terminated at Lancaster because of, guess what - a problem with the brakes. A mere five minutes after its arrival, however, it was deemed fit to continue ECS to Preston, from where it has resumed public service of the same train. Doesn't sound like a problem with the brakes.
JourneyCheck gives the reason for the part-cancellation as "due to train crew being delayed". Perhaps the "problem with the brakes" refers to an issue on an earlier train which delayed the crew?
The driver doesn't appear to have been delayed, unless it's that new kind of stock which features, not driver-only operation, but no-driver-at-all operation.
Boysteve
Member
On the plus side all 3 Liverpool - Airport diagrams are 195s this morning 
On the plus side all 3 Liverpool - Airport diagrams are 195s this morning
After the initial hiccup.
195s on Airport - Barrow/Windermere today: 195115/9/21/2. Non-195s: 156451, 158907. (156451 looks to be the unit which ultimately replaced the one which was terminated at Oxford Road early this morning. I.D. of this latter unit not known).
I don't know what operated the 1229 Airport - Barrow, sorry, this unit doesn't do a second trip to the Airport.
I don't know what operated the 1229 Airport - Barrow, sorry, this unit doesn't do a second trip to the Airport.
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Sorry, meant to say "this was the first time since early last week (Monday I think) that it was not short-formed of a single unit."
I'm afraid I'm anything but convinced that this 'big bang' (i.e. the significant increase in use of 195s) is going to take place from Monday, as has been mooted. Someone said an extra four diagrams were going to go over to 195s, someone else said the Liverpool service was going to go over to 195s entirely, and the Barrow service to 195s almost entirely. That latter situation would probably equate to an extra three diagrams, but, either way, we're talking at least ten diagrams 195-operated. Yet only ten units have been seen in service, I would have expected there to have been a couple more available by now if what is predicted is actually going to happen.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
I wouldn't call that putting the customer first.
Since when have Northern put customers before operational convenience? Although if the unit is in the wrong place it is likely to mean disruption the next morning and a platform blocked at Preston.
That's the sort of spurious fault the TCMS throws up randomly. Quite concerning that such things happen so frequently for safety critical systems and the driver obviously did the correct thing and reported it to the controlling signaller and TOC control as it was presented to them in the cab. Checks can be made both by the driver and by a maintenance technician sat in an office with online access to interrogate the train's TCMS, once a static brake test has been performed (takes four minutes on these units and needs all doors closed among other conditions) the unit might be good to go if no fault can be found.
There is an element of risk of 'crying wolf' with the situation though and I wouldn't be surprised if both traincrew and maintenance staff/controllers are being desensitised to the seriousness of some of the apparent faults being flagged due to their frequency.
Sundays can't pass these days without there being delays/cancellations, and today is no exception. As has happened before, the morning ECS working from Newton Heath to Manchester Airport left rather late (53L); further time was lost at Victoria (presumably for a driver change and/or to pick up a conductor) and the Airport was finally reached 62L. This resulted in a 34L departure for what should have been the 0833 Airport - Windermere. (The 0935 Airport - Barrow, formed from the second unit, was able to leave more or less on time).
A 30L arrival at Oxenholme meant that it was considered too late to continue to Windermere (leaving at least 24L), so everyone was subjected to a further 24-minute delay until it was time for the next trip to depart.
Could the second unit not have been dropped in P3 at Oxford Road en route to the Airport? (That is the platform the ensemble passed through anyway). The Windermere could then have departed on time, or, preferably, only c.12L after waiting for passengers from Airport/Piccadilly to transfer from the following 0842 Airport to Blackpool North. No?
Other cancellations today have up to now been of:
0947 Barrow - Airport cancelled after Preston
1137 Barrow - Airport cancelled after Lancaster
1241 Airport - Barrow cancelled to Preston
1433 Airport - Windermere cancelled to Lancaster
A 30L arrival at Oxenholme meant that it was considered too late to continue to Windermere (leaving at least 24L), so everyone was subjected to a further 24-minute delay until it was time for the next trip to depart.
Could the second unit not have been dropped in P3 at Oxford Road en route to the Airport? (That is the platform the ensemble passed through anyway). The Windermere could then have departed on time, or, preferably, only c.12L after waiting for passengers from Airport/Piccadilly to transfer from the following 0842 Airport to Blackpool North. No?
Other cancellations today have up to now been of:
0947 Barrow - Airport cancelled after Preston
1137 Barrow - Airport cancelled after Lancaster
1241 Airport - Barrow cancelled to Preston
1433 Airport - Windermere cancelled to Lancaster
But surely, if the unit passed a static brake test, it would have been able to continue in public service. That doesn't explain why it went ECS from Lancaster to Preston.
I do find jawr256's explanation quite plausible (particularly bearing in mind that a northbound journey had been terminated at Oxford Road earlier in the morning, ostensibly because of brake problems). The only flaw I see in his explanation is the fact that there seems to have been a driver available to take the train to Preston, but not a conductor, and I can't see why that should have been.
Additional cancellations are:
1347 Barrow - Airport cancelled after Preston
1533 Airport - Barrow cancelled after Preston (according to 'Journey Check' - RTT still says this journey is running OK)
1633 Airport - Barrow cancelled completely (RTT still says this journey is running OK)
1851 Barrow - Preston cancelled (this journey is a regular casualty, since it is one-way only)
1947 Barrow - Airport cancelled to Preston
Note two consecutive journeys cancelled Barrow - Preston, likewise Preston - Barrow.
EDIT: RTT has since been updated and now agrees with 'Journey Check'.
P.S. The 1603 Lancaster to Carlisle service is cancelled as far as Barrow, therefore there won't be a train from Lancaster to the Furness between 1526 and 1903. Between Preston and the Furness the gap is even greater - 1508 to 1957, although the 1903 ex-Lancaster can be accessed by connecting off a TPE or Virgin.
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Another cancellation tonight has been of part of the 1901 Windermere - Manchester Airport, which was cancelled after Preston. The unit off this working appears to have been attached to the 2109 Preston - Manchester Airport, i.e. the uncancelled part of the 1947 ex-Barrow. This created a five-car formation - three-car 158 plus two-car 158; sorry, I don't know which unit came off which diagram. This formation eventually left Preston at 2143, 34L, and was terminated at Oxford Road at 2231, 33L.
From 2234 to 2241 all five platforms at Oxford Road were occupied - what a sight, late at night! It's not as if they were even 'little' trains, apart from one 156 they were all formations of at least four carriages. Platform 1 was occupied from 2203 to 2240 by a 319 working the 2143 Manchester Airport to Blackpool North - I presume it was awaiting a crew member, even before it arrived the screens were showing a departure time of 2235. Platform 3 was occupied from 2213 to 2243 by a 156 working the 2059 Blackpool North to Manchester Airport - no, I don't know why it was a 156. Platform 2 was occupied from 2228 to 2249 by a 319 operating the 2137 Wilmslow to Liverpool Lime Street stopper - this was the first westbound Chat Moss stopper for three hours, so it wasn't good that it left 20L. Platform 4 was occupied from 2231 to 2241 by the aforementioned five-car 158 formation, ex-Preston. Finally Platform 5 was occupied from 2234 to 2246 by the CLC stopper, a double 150/1, due away at 2244.
From before it arrived, the five-car 158 had had a green signal for continuing towards Piccadilly - trouble was, it wasn't going to Piccadilly, it was going direct to Newton Heath, presumably because of being as late as it was, but no-one must have told the signallers. After a bit of tooting by the drivers of the other trains, it eventually got an amber signal westbound and set off back in the direction from whence it came. Things moved pretty rapidly then and everything had gone by 2249.
I wasn't around for all that long today, just long enough to see two 195s on established 195 diagrams, and Sprinters on all the Liverpool semi-fasts. Two diagrams on Barrow/Windermere had clearly been covered, as scheduled, by 158s. So, unless someone knows otherwise, I'm inclined to suppose that no 'new' 195s have been in use today, nor have 195s been on any 'non-195' diagrams. Which leaves me still doubtful that 195 operation is going to be greatly increased from tomorrow.
From 2234 to 2241 all five platforms at Oxford Road were occupied - what a sight, late at night! It's not as if they were even 'little' trains, apart from one 156 they were all formations of at least four carriages. Platform 1 was occupied from 2203 to 2240 by a 319 working the 2143 Manchester Airport to Blackpool North - I presume it was awaiting a crew member, even before it arrived the screens were showing a departure time of 2235. Platform 3 was occupied from 2213 to 2243 by a 156 working the 2059 Blackpool North to Manchester Airport - no, I don't know why it was a 156. Platform 2 was occupied from 2228 to 2249 by a 319 operating the 2137 Wilmslow to Liverpool Lime Street stopper - this was the first westbound Chat Moss stopper for three hours, so it wasn't good that it left 20L. Platform 4 was occupied from 2231 to 2241 by the aforementioned five-car 158 formation, ex-Preston. Finally Platform 5 was occupied from 2234 to 2246 by the CLC stopper, a double 150/1, due away at 2244.
From before it arrived, the five-car 158 had had a green signal for continuing towards Piccadilly - trouble was, it wasn't going to Piccadilly, it was going direct to Newton Heath, presumably because of being as late as it was, but no-one must have told the signallers. After a bit of tooting by the drivers of the other trains, it eventually got an amber signal westbound and set off back in the direction from whence it came. Things moved pretty rapidly then and everything had gone by 2249.
I wasn't around for all that long today, just long enough to see two 195s on established 195 diagrams, and Sprinters on all the Liverpool semi-fasts. Two diagrams on Barrow/Windermere had clearly been covered, as scheduled, by 158s. So, unless someone knows otherwise, I'm inclined to suppose that no 'new' 195s have been in use today, nor have 195s been on any 'non-195' diagrams. Which leaves me still doubtful that 195 operation is going to be greatly increased from tomorrow.
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Theres a pair of 195s in bay at Oxford Road, 195001 and 195007. Looks like their next working is 1f93 0912 Oxford Road to Lime Street looking at RTT and Tracksy
Also seems to be a few Liverpool-airport and Barrow-airports cancelled due to train faults/problem at the depot this morning.
Also seems to be a few Liverpool-airport and Barrow-airports cancelled due to train faults/problem at the depot this morning.
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Things are slowly creeping back to the shambles of last May/June, they are already there on Sundays. Manchester ROC wouldn't have been pleased at Oxford Rd being completely gridlocked. On at least one occasion last May Preston station was the same gridlocked with dumped Northern units with no booked drivers there to move them, to the effect that Northern were advised one afternoon not to send any more trains towards Preston as they wouldn't be accepted.
PS, railway signals show yellow, not amber.
PS, railway signals show yellow, not amber.
Would that have been the 7:09 from Lime St to Oxford Road?
Yes looks to be the case.
Boysteve
Member
Are these 2 car units? I presume so as I did not think the bay could take 6 cars!
UPDATE; Of course they are 2-car I just remembered the difference between 195/0 and 195/1, also I just saw them operating 16:16 from Lime Street! However the original 'circuit 7' has NOT strengthened the peak time C2C service this evening. It will be interesting to see how many 195s came out to play today when everybody reports back.
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As a commuter, the relationship between Network Rail and Arriva Northern does appear very poor.
Network Rail announcers on the tannoy at Manchester Piccadilly have started to explain make a point as to why Northern trains are cancelled "due to lack of Northern train crew/driver". They don't do this for other train companies. I sense they have lost patience and any goodwill is now gone.
In other news, interesting to see the 195s operate a Liverpool to Oxford Road diagram. I don't think that was in plan / peoples' expectations on here until very recently.
Circuit 7 was coupled with circuit 6 this morning (the 06:13 from Liverpool & 07:48 from Wilmslow) so not sure why they are not strengthening this afternoon and it's only a single three carriage unit.
The 0709 Lime Street to Oxford Road and 0912 return are semi-fast - they just don't run to/from the Airport. They're not CLC stoppers. The 0709 does depart a shade earlier than the norm of xx.16, but otherwise the journeys are part of the normal semi-fast routine, albeit, up to this week, on the diagram which remained non-195 operated.
palmersears
Established Member
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Not a great day for my 195s. 0709 off Piccadilly to Lime Street cancelled 'due to a problem at the depot', with the 1616 return a few minutes late departing and with iffy doors at Warrington and Oxford Road. Somehow only 3 late at Piccadilly which was a bonus.
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