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Northern Class 331: Construction/Introduction Updates

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Neptune

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4 car 331’s indeed intended for Leeds - Doncaster from May (current issues permitting) although only Doncaster and a limited amount of Leeds crews will sign them initially. Therefore it is highly unlikely they’ll venture onto the triangle before December as no Skipton and the majority of Leeds crews will not sign them until then.
 

Adam0984

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As soon as enough crew have been trained the 331s will be introduced into service same as the 170s were.
The first crews will be Leeds and Doncaster, followed by Skipton in the east for the 331s but training runs will be between Doncaster and York
 

Neptune

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Doncaster crews and 2 links of Leeds crews will sign them. Not sure what the drivers have agreed but conductors traction course is 2 days in Donny west yard. No start date yet as units will not be in service! at least in the east, until at least early July due to the ongoing coupler issues which have been mentioned in much of the press since the initial announcement.

In preparation for December when they start to infiltrate the triangle then the remaining Leeds crews and all Skipton crews will sign them in the run up to the Dec ‘19 timetable change.

This is no easy conversion traction course due to them being completely new units with no comparable Northern unit to convert from hence the length of time it takes to train on them.

I hope this clears this all up.
 
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Harvey B

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Can any Northern Staff based in Leeds confirm when the 331s are entering service here, I've asked on the Northern Unit refurbishments thread but no Leeds staff have said that they're not entering service in May.
 

158820

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I am not staff but any pragmatist can see they will not enter service in May. No 331 has even been to Leeds. No driver training has begun. This will take a couple of months.
 

Harvey B

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I am not staff but any pragmatist can see they will not enter service in May. No 331 has even been to Leeds. No driver training has begun. This will take a couple of months.
Unless any Northern staff member based at leeds confirms it, then im believing what Railway Gazette said and they'll enter service on the Leeds routes in May
 
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AMD

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Unless any Northern staff member based at leeds confirms it, then im believing what Railway Gazette said and they'll enter service on the Leeds routes in May

Even if they started training tomorrow, the company would be hard pushed to get the new units into service on the east side for the end of June.
 

AMD

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Not sure what the drivers have agreed but conductors traction course is 2 days in Donny west yard.

If you're only getting two days I think you've been short changed, as we are getting three days on the west - one day classroom, two days practical. Drivers get a whole week.
 

Mathew S

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Unless any Northern staff member based at leeds confirms it, then im believing what Railway Gazette said and they'll enter service on the Leeds routes in May
Harvey, you can believe what you want but several well informed people have given you the facts as they are. I'm not sure what you hope to gain by asking the same questions again on a different thread, because you're going to get exactly the same responses.
 

Bertie the bus

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Unless any Northern staff member based at leeds confirms it, then im believing what Railway Gazette said and they'll enter service on the Leeds routes in May
Don't forget your flask and sandwiches as you're going to get mightily thirsty and hungry waiting to see one if you turn up at Leeds at the start of the new timetable.
 

Harvey B

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Don't forget your flask and sandwiches as you're going to get mightily thirsty and hungry waiting to see one if you turn up at Leeds at the start of the new timetable.
I can't be at Leeds in the day of the new timetable change as Im doing GCSE's during that period so the earliest I'll see one will probably be the 15th of June.
 

Harvey B

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Harvey, you can believe what you want but several well informed people have given you the facts as they are. I'm not sure what you hope to gain by asking the same questions again on a different thread, because you're going to get exactly the same responses.
I'm asking for a credible source as I can't rely on rumours and unless its confirmed by a varifiable source (in this case a Leeds based Northern crew member or railway gazette) which was the consensus I was taught on Wikipedia (I use wikipedia but rarely do I use it for UK railway edits).
But I guess since I've been many times by different people I might have to change my consensus to the one on here.
 

Bertie the bus

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... which was the consensus I was taught on Wikipedia (I use wikipedia but rarely do I use it for UK railway edits).
Instead of relying on what Wikipedia has taught you rely on what your school should have taught you. Learn to think for yourself and evaluate all available evidence. They are not going to be in service in 5 weeks.
 

AMD

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The thing you need to be aware of is that some train crew may not wish to identify themselves as such. In this day and age of social media policies at work, something typed here could be held against them, however innocuous it may seem.
 

hwl

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I can't all avaliable evidence if theres no evidence that is reliable.
Anon Staff member is a far better reliable source than any formal written source that is acceptable to Wikipedia for things like this. A paradox for the Wikipedia model though!
 

Harvey B

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Anon Staff member is a far better reliable source than any formal written source that is acceptable to Wikipedia for things like this. A paradox for the Wikipedia model though!
Anyone can think what they like but since im also a Wikipedia User, then 9 times out of 10 I think the credible proof more is acceptable than speculation and rumours. Sorry for going off topic here.
Finally, the conversation about consensuses ends here so don't continue about credible sources, speculation and consensuses
 
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Bertie the bus

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I can't all avaliable evidence if theres no evidence that is reliable.
No evidence that is reliable? The fact none of the units have turned a wheel for 1 month due to a structural issue. The fact none have been to Yorkshire yet for fitter training at Neville Hill. The fact Class 170 driver training at York and Hull started 2 or 3 months ago in preparation for the May timetable but there has been no driver training for the 331s. None of this is evidence?

There really is no helping some people.
 

Harvey B

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No evidence that is reliable? The fact none of the units have turned a wheel for 1 month due to a structural issue. The fact none have been to Yorkshire yet for fitter training at Neville Hill. The fact Class 170 driver training at York and Hull started 2 or 3 months ago in preparation for the May timetable but there has been no driver training for the 331s. None of this is evidence?

There really is no helping some people.
Its evidence that theres an issue with them but not evidence that they're not entering service at the end of may to me.
As I've said i've changed my beliefs to what people have said to me in this forum so this discussion Ends here so don't continue this discussion.

Once again, sorry for going off drift
 
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driver_m

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Harvey. You’d do well to listen to what has been said on here, particularly from staff. I’m based at Liverpool for a different TOC and go on the depot where all the 331s are getting brought through to the UK. The drivers on this side of the country haven’t properly got their hands on them yet, so a set making its way to Leeds would be all over the forum, the internet etc, because it would have to be either dragged or sent on a magical mystery tour of London or Scotland via AC lines to get there. Take it from those with some knowledge that it won’t be happening in May.

It also isn’t your place to give the orders around about the end of a conversation. That’s for the mods to decide. The railway is usually full of rumours and nonsense, but on this occasion, you’d be wise to presume a delay will happen.
 

Adam0984

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Can any Northern Staff based in Leeds confirm when the 331s are entering service here, I've asked on the Northern Unit refurbishments thread but no Leeds staff have said that they're not entering service in May.
Leeds conductor here and as I’ve said in the refurb thread they will not enter service at the timetable change or any where close to that date. A couple of Driver Managers have been over and had a residential in Liverpool been trained on them not sure about the instructors but they have all been Route learning Leeds to Doncaster and Doncaster to York for training purposes when they finally do come over. 2 Leeds conductor managers have been over a couple of weeks ago to learn them.
If 1 enters service there should be a 2nd one spare and ready to rescue the other if it fails. Plus at least 1 on driver training runs and conductor training. So that’s at least 3 that need to be over here and accepted to run in passenger service.
At Leeds there’s 2 drivers links that sign Doncaster and conductors all approx 200 of us sign Doncaster so not sure what they’re gonna do whether it’ll just be random people of specific links. At Doncaster all drivers and Conductors sign up to Leeds bit don’t know how many that is
 

Harvey B

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Leeds conductor here and as I’ve said in the refurb thread they will not enter service at the timetable change or any where close to that date. A couple of Driver Managers have been over and had a residential in Liverpool been trained on them not sure about the instructors but they have all been Route learning Leeds to Doncaster and Doncaster to York for training purposes when they finally do come over. 2 Leeds conductor managers have been over a couple of weeks ago to learn them.
If 1 enters service there should be a 2nd one spare and ready to rescue the other if it fails. Plus at least 1 on driver training runs and conductor training. So that’s at least 3 that need to be over here and accepted to run in passenger service.
At Leeds there’s 2 drivers links that sign Doncaster and conductors all approx 200 of us sign Doncaster so not sure what they’re gonna do whether it’ll just be random people of specific links. At Doncaster all drivers and Conductors sign up to Leeds bit don’t know how many that is
Hey, Thanks very much I really appreciate it. I now rest my case
 
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Geeves

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Another Northern employee here too. You could've rested your case a long time ago because Adam (who I have known for over a decade and is always clued up) has only had to type again what myself, LLama and many others have already said. If you don't want to believe what actual employees of the company are telling you over Wikipedia that is your choice.

So for the final time. 331s will be in service by the end of the year but if you go looking in May you will be disappointed. Its that simple.
 
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anamyd

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In service in May before the internal bar couplers are made less width restricted...? :lol::lol::lol:
 

Harvey B

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Another Northern employee here too. You could've rested your case a long time ago because Adam (who I have known for over a decade and is always clued up) has only had to type again what myself, LLama and many others have already said. If you don't want to believe what actual employees of the company are telling you over Wikipedia that is your choice.

So for the final time. 331s will be in service by the end of the year but if you go looking in May you will be disappointed. Its that simple.
Hi there, Thanks for double confirming this.
May I just explain my beliefs before you @Adam0984 and other Northern staff members and non-staff members confirmed that they are not entering service on the Leeds routes in May.
I just assumed that the railway gazette thing was right until I asked people on this forum and I thought that it would only be the Manchester units entering service after May.
Now that I know this is not the case for the Leeds units, it makes me wonder what will happen to the currently f**ked up 321s and 322s (sorry for going off topic but it makes sense to bring those units up) until the new 331s arrive. i'm guessing this may put the 333 refurb program on hold until the 331s arrive, which I guess makes sense to run 333s to aid 322s and 321s if they're struggling.
 
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darloscott

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I would guess the 333 refurb program will be depend on whether they need an extra unit to cover the morning 144 Triangle diagram. I'm assuming this will become an electric peak-only run instead (the 144 gets sent on an extra service to Lancaster instead)... possibly they could cover this with a 170 or whatever else is spare on a day to day basis until they have enough electric units.
 
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