Northern Class 331: Construction/Introduction Updates

[Llama]

There appear to be at least three pairs of 331s booked to work Hazel Grove/Blackpool North/Manchester Airport diagrams from next week, according to the traincrew diagrams.

 

[Mollman]

There appear to be at least three pairs of 331s booked to work Hazel Grove/Blackpool North/Manchester Airport diagrams from next week, according to the traincrew diagrams.

That's good news that they're meant to be in pairs.

 

[Llama]

What's booked and what actually happens with traction on Northern are two very different things, and seeing as though they are still booked about 50 minutes layover at Hazel Grove and it's already been proved that that's not workable, we'll see what happens on Monday.

 

[td97]

pairs

That's good news that they're meant to be in pairs.

Indeed, finally confirmation of the capacity increasing to pre-electrification levels for the Manchester - Blackpool section! (in the form of 138m of carriages like the double 185s used to be)

What's booked and what actually happens with traction on Northern are two very different things, and seeing as though they are still booked about 50 minutes layover at Hazel Grove and it's already been proved that that's not workable, we'll see what happens on Monday.

Should be ok for the Airport services?
It looks possible for the Hazel Groves to go to platform 0 at Stockport for half an hour?

 

[Llama]

Indeed, finally confirmation of the capacity increasing to pre-electrification levels for the Manchester - Blackpool section! (in the form of 138m of carriages like the double 185s used to be)

Should be ok for the Airport services?
It looks possible for the Hazel Groves to go to platform 0 at Stockport for half an hour?

So long as the Airports don't share a platform, at the moment with the 319s I seem to remember always ending up in and out of unoccupied platform 1.

No chance of going back to platform zero at Stockport. Any move from the Hope Valley lines to platform zero would have to run up to Heaton Norris to reverse.

 

[Greybeard33]

What's booked and what actually happens with traction on Northern are two very different things, and seeing as though they are still booked about 50 minutes layover at Hazel Grove and it's already been proved that that's not workable, we'll see what happens on Monday.

Might the plan be to split the pairs at Hazel Grove, and shunt one 3-car unit into each of the two sidings for the 50 minute layover? Then reassemble the formation in the other platform for the return working? The mind boggles...!

 

[palmersears]

Might the plan be to split the pairs at Hazel Grove, and shunt one 3-car unit into each of the two sidings for the 50 minute layover? Then reassemble the formation in the other platform for the return working? The mind boggles...!

Signalling at Hazel Grove doesn't allow permissive entry to platforms, so that's a no go.

 

[Llama]

Yep, see post #1263.

I can see that this has actually been overlooked, it nearly was with the 180s when they came in 2008 but luckily they did fit in the sidings once the overgrown vegetation had been cleared and it was found that there was actual track beneath the bushes.

 

[superkev]

With the new timetable beckoning have any more 331s been taken out of store at edge hill. Last report on here a while back was 7x 3car there with 10 still awaited from CAF.
K

 

[LOL The Irony]

Last report on here a while back was 7x 2car there with 10 still awaited from CAF.

Are you sure they weren't 195's?

 

[superkev]

Are you sure they weren't 195's?

Not sure but last months 507021 excellent blog lists 19 x 331/0 as delivered but not in use presumably at EG with 10 more awaited. Some are on training and more have entered service since then.
K

 

[Bovverboy]

With the new timetable beckoning have any more 331s been taken out of store at edge hill. Last report on here a while back was 7x 2car there with 10 still awaited from CAF.
K

Are you sure they weren't 195's?

Not sure but last months 507021 excellent blog lists 19 x 331/0 as delivered but not in use presumably at EG with 10 more awaited. Some are on training and more have entered service since then.
K

331/0s are 3-car, I think that's the confusion.

 

[86247]

21 331/0 delivered with 10 outstanding.
17 195/0 delivered with 8 outstanding.
31 195/1 delivered with 3 outstanding, that's according to train logger.

 

[86247]

sorry got my maths wrong it's 30 195/1 delivered with 3 outstanding

 

[js1000]

Indeed, finally confirmation of the capacity increasing to pre-electrification levels for the Manchester - Blackpool section! (in the form of 138m of carriages like the double 185s used to be)

I wouldn't hold your breath judging by the doubled up 195 services on the Liverpool to Manchester Airport route which are supposed to be 6 cars. Pot luck what turns up! Some days it can be 6, others it can be just 2.

 

[Greybeard33]

Yep, see post #1263.

I can see that this has actually been overlooked, it nearly was with the 180s when they came in 2008 but luckily they did fit in the sidings once the overgrown vegetation had been cleared and it was found that there was actual track beneath the bushes.

Oops, sorry, I missed that post.

But is Northern management plumbing new depths of incompetence? I pointed out back in post #1167 that the Hazel Grove sidings are not long enough for 6-car formations - all it took to establish that was a few minutes spent scanning the Sectional Appendix on the Network Rail website. How can professional planners fail to carry out such a basic check?!

 

[superkev]

21 331/0 delivered with 10 outstanding.
17 195/0 delivered with 8 outstanding.
31 195/1 delivered with 3 outstanding, that's according to train logger.

Thanks. I was trying g to find out also the new CAF units still in store.
K

 

[The Northern Star]

331015 should be on passenger runs along Stoke line on Sunday all being well!

 

[jizzer]

Oops, sorry, I missed that post.

But is Northern management plumbing new depths of incompetence? I pointed out back in post #1167 that the Hazel Grove sidings are not long enough for 6-car formations - all it took to establish that was a few minutes spent scanning the Sectional Appendix on the Network Rail website. How can professional planners fail to carry out such a basic check?!

Hazel Grove sidings can take a 6 car 331. It has been measured. And most if not all Blackpool to Hazel Grove services will be 6 car 331s from Monday.

 

[nigelsporne]

331015 was stabled at Stockport today. Northern services a shambles today, not a good portent for tomorrow!

 

[Llama]

Fairly sure 015 has been the training unit out of Stockport for a few weeks now.

 

[Inox]

onboard a 331 from buckshaw to airport. First time on a caf unit. Like them already.

 

[Llama]

Hazel Grove sidings can take a 6 car 331. It has been measured. And most if not all Blackpool to Hazel Grove services will be 6 car 331s from Monday.

Have the sidings been lengthened then? Otherwise they're way too short. 2* 3-car 331 is a shade short of 143m in length.

 

[Amstel]

I did see them cutting down vegetation near to the station about 6 weeks ago
and trains were using one line only in both directions to allow for this work to go on,
but I've no idea why (should have asked).

 

[agbrs_Jack]

331015 should be on passenger runs along Stoke line on Sunday all being well!

There was a 331 on the 12:25 Congleton to Stoke today.
I saw it pulling into Prestbury from my replacement bus (10:44 CNG-Manchester cancelled)
Hourly service please! Over 2 years late!

 

[CJ]

There was a 331 on the 12:25 Congleton to Stoke today.
I saw it pulling into Prestbury from my replacement bus (10:44 CNG-Manchester cancelled)
Hourly service please! Over 2 years late!

331015 is operating the Manchester - Stoke-on-Trent service(s).

Also 331112 operating Manchester Airport - Blackpool North as well.

 

[Greybeard33]

Have the sidings been lengthened then? Otherwise they're way too short. 2* 3-car 331 is a shade short of 143m in length.

I have now measured the Hazel Grove sidings on a Google Maps satellite image, and it appears that the usable length is about 170m from the buffer stop to the exit signal.

My bad for believing the SA!

 

[Geeves]

A 6 car has been in there today I believe. I wonder if the SA was going on usable length rather than the official length?

 

[Llama]

I have now measured the Hazel Grove sidings on a Google Maps satellite image, and it appears that the usable length is about 170m from the buffer stop to the exit signal.

My bad for believing the SA!

Good effort, I tried doing that before and gave up after squinting at it for five minutes. Let's hope they run as booked tomorrow then, two three-car sets will go like absolute stink.

 

[northernchris]

Good effort, I tried doing that before and gave up after squinting at it for five minutes. Let's hope they run as booked tomorrow then, two three-car sets will go like absolute stink.

I use Great Northern's live departure tool as it seems to be accurate, and that's currently showing a Blackpool - Hazel Grove and a Blackpool - Airport as being 8 carriages!