Northern Class 331: Construction/Introduction Updates

[jawr256]

I use Great Northern's live departure tool as it seems to be accurate, and that's currently showing a Blackpool - Hazel Grove and a Blackpool - Airport as being 8 carriages!

I saw the 06:32 Blackpool North to Hazel Grove, which was shown on departure boards as 8 carriages, but was 2x319 with the rear set appearing locked out of use (at Preston at least)

 

[JMan]

The 06:53 Blackpool to Manchester Airport was an 8 carriage 331/1 - back 4 carriages locked out so everyone crammed into first 4. First impressions are needs more grab rails for those standing but smoother ride through Bolton and Salford than a 319.

 

[Sleeperwaking]

I have now measured the Hazel Grove sidings on a Google Maps satellite image, and it appears that the usable length is about 170m from the buffer stop to the exit signal.

My bad for believing the SA!

I think the lengths in the Sectional Appendix are fine as a guide / there or thereabouts, but I wouldn't call them accurate.

 

[Jamesrob637]

There is a diagrams thread for these trains - I think this thread should be left to the actual introduction of the trains themselves and experiences of on-board ambience, etc

 

[Clip]

Was in the retimed 0710 from Chorley to Blackpool North - nice trains but everythign seemed to take an age - doors to open/close then getting going.

Nice acceleration though once it started to move

 

[JMan]

There is a diagrams thread for these trains - I think this thread should be left to the actual introduction of the trains themselves and experiences of on-board ambience, etc

apologies - amended for my first impressions

 

[xotGD]

Any additional 331 diagrams in Airedale yet? I had the pleasure of 322s each way today.

 

[MDB1images]

331022 was on test tonight at Preston.

 

[superkev]

331022 was on test tonight at Preston.

Thanks. Prob out of date but I have 331 003, 004, 010, 012, 014, 018, 019, 020, 021, 022 as in store for some reason (why?) although some of those may be out on training. Awaited 331 023 to 031.
K

 

[86247]

331023 was reported to be at edge hill on the 13th of December and 331024 at portbury docks on the same date.both from train logger.

 

[Grannyjoans]

Liverpool-Wigan stoppers and Lime St-Blackpool express seem to mainly have gone back to 319's at the start of this new timetable - a permanent or temporary change ??

 

[Grannyjoans]

Again, like much of Northern's order, the question is why they ordered so many small trains. 3 car 331s, 2 car 195s...

I can see the argument that 3 car. 331 can become 6 cars as required (Aire/Wharfe) but surely a range of 4,5 and 6 cars would have at least allowed for growth. So many places getting a 3 car EMU (or a 2 car DMU!) locks in terrible capacity for the next wee while.

I believe the 2-car 195's allows them to directly replace 142's on quiet branch line services

 

[156420]

Liverpool-Wigan stoppers and Lime St-Blackpool express seem to mainly have gone back to 319's at the start of this new timetable - a permanent or temporary change ??

Permanent - at least for this timetable change anyway, there are still a few 331’s around on the Liverpool-Crewe services, and 1 on the Blackpool’s.

Once there are the full set of 331’s this will change again.

 

[js1000]

I believe the 2-car 195's allows them to directly replace 142's on quiet branch line services

I think people forget the two car 195s will directly replace Pacers on some branch lines - it won't be a case of all Pacers replaced by cascaded 150/156s. From Northern's perspective it will be interesting to see if passenger numbers pick up sharply as a result of this Pacer to 195 upgrade. If so it will demonstrate there is untapped potential and encourage further new train orders in the coming years.

 

[Nymanic]

Wait, which branch lines are getting a direct replacement? What am I missing here?

If you're talking about the CLC or Barrow/Windermere, these do not qualify as 'quiet'. And I'm not aware of any other such branch lines getting 142s/144s directly replaced with 195s.

 

[Geeves]

Yeah I think that analogy is a little wrong, while they are replacements for 142s on some services this is only down to Northern's random unit generator, such as on the Calder Valley or as Nymaniac said the CLC. You wont be seeing any 195s on the Colne line or the Ormskirk Branch (for example) but they will see 'upgraded' stock due to the displacement by 195s off other main routes.

 

[Meerkat]

Presumably the 195s are going to end up on the branches once there is more electrification, and that is why they were bought with doors at thirds

 

[NewSt]

Permanent - at least for this timetable change anyway, there are still a few 331’s around on the Liverpool-Crewe services, and 1 on the Blackpool’s.

Once there are the full set of 331’s this will change again.

Which Liverpool-Crewe services are 331s?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Presumably the 195s are going to end up on the branches once there is more electrification, and that is why they were bought with doors at thirds

Future cascades to routes like Colne, Clitheroe and Ormskirk are just about the only sensible justification for 2-car units without end gangways, though I haven't seen anyone official give this justification.

Anyway this is the 331 thread, so I'll not go any further.

 

[prod_pep]

Which Liverpool-Crewe services are 331s?

The 1527 Liverpool Lime Street - Crewe is one which has gone over to 331 operation (331009 today) following the timetable change. Previously this was booked for 319, but more often than not substituted for a DMU due to the perennially poor availability rate of the 319s.

 

[Bovverboy]

Future cascades to routes like Colne, Clitheroe and Ormskirk are just about the only sensible justification for 2-car units without end gangways, though I haven't seen anyone official give this justification.

We have been assured on another thread that Clitheroes are currently booked for 3-4 car sets. Anything less is a short-form.

Of the 4 Clitheroe diagrams - 2 are booked 158+153 the other two are 150+142.

 

[td97]

The guard on 2N61 (17:03 Hazel Grove to Blackpool North) tonight was utterly overjoyed at the prospect of having to work 6 carriages, delightfully annoucing this should be the daily arrangement. There were seats for everyone who wanted one, even those who got on at Deansgate (unheard of at peak).
The ride did seem better than the similar 195 and the acceleration was immense. Unfortunately late-running meant we were chasing yellows at 60-80mph after Salford (line speed 100) but the internal ambience was unparalleled compared to anything else in Northern's fleet. The quietest EMU I've been on.

I believe there are some platforms on the Blackpool to Hazel Grove route that require a 6-car to use SDO, which the 323s do not have. Maybe these platforms could be lengthened by the time the additional 323s arrive from WMT, in order that the some 331s could be redeployed?

The guard thoroughly explained to everyone after Salford that passengers for Blackrod, Adlington & Leyland in the rear 2 coaches should move forward to alight at these stations, and that the train should make automatic announcements for this. Nonetheless, he made manual announcements to confirm as the PIS in front train reset at Piccadilly to start again from Hazel Grove.
Lengthening is out of question for now - it would have been done during the route upgrade if it was deemed worthwhile.

 

[156420]

Which Liverpool-Crewe services are 331s?

The 1527 Liverpool Lime Street - Crewe is one which has gone over to 331 operation (331009 today) following the timetable change. Previously this was booked for 319, but more often than not substituted for a DMU due to the perennially poor availability rate of the 319s.

0524, 0827, 1027, are 4 car 331’s.

1527 is a 3 car and 2027 to Wilmslow and 2229 Man Air ex-Lime St are also 4 car.

 

[Nymanic]

If the 6-car services can start running with some degree of regularity, it'll be a very positive news story indeed.

Lengthening is out of question for now - it would have been done during the route upgrade if it was deemed worthwhile.

That's unfortunate. But rather than a question of being worthwhile, perhaps it's not happening because single 319s were thought to be sufficient back when the plans were drawn up - not to mention that 319s were the only 'new' EMUs available back then. 323s were thought to be Birmingham-bound, and nobody even dreamt of 'new new' EMUs so 6-car services weren't anticipated.

 

[Grannyjoans]

If you're talking about the CLC or Barrow/Windermere, these do not qualify as 'quiet'. And I'm not aware of any other such branch lines getting 142s/144s directly replaced with 195s.

I think there is talk of some pacer routes getting the 2-car 195's such as the Kirkby branch, can't remember what the others were

 

[childwallblues]

331023 was reported to be at edge hill on the 13th of December and 331024 at portbury docks on the same date.both from train logger.

331023 was out on test yesterday afternoon passing through Broad Green at 1515.

 

[Jozhua]

I got a 331 the other day, absolutely beautiful!

4 car trains appear to have been deployed on MAN - Blackpool N Pole, giving a really ideal uplift in capacity!

Train lengths up from ~79.5m on 319's to ~ 95m with 331's. Really ideal, as the Bolton - Airport leg is always super overcrowded. Faster acceleration and more seating/standing room should reduce dwells and time between stops, once the door release times improve! Hopefully this will allow them to keep time and reduce knock on delays through Castlefield.

A little bit of investment should go a long way in the North, god knows we've needed it.

 

[jfollows]

Roger Ford says in December Modern Railways, that CAF EMUs (class 331 and 397) have electrical interference problems around Preston which has led to some operational restrictions in the area.
Apparently they produce spikes in the OHLE voltage which class 92s in particular object to.
It particularly happens when raising/lowering pantographs.
The area affected is Euxton to Catterall on the WCML, and the Blackpool North branch.

Roger Ford now reports the problems have been resolved with a traction package software update.

CAF’s modification to the Class 331/397 traction package software seems to have cured the resonance in the 25kV traction supply that had been annoying other traction equipment (Informed Sources December 2019). The final proof came with a bravura piece of empiricism.

Six Class 331 units and two Class 397 units were connected to the line voltage at Preston. The worst case configuration for stabled units was set. Then they waited for the Caledonian Sleepers to run through the section.

Monitoring the overhead line voltage showed no low-frequency line voltage oscillation, with voltage within the normal range. And the sleeper services crossed the section without either Class 92 throwing a fit of the vapours.

 

[childwallblues]

I got a 331 the other day, absolutely beautiful!

4 car trains appear to have been deployed on MAN - Blackpool N Pole, giving a really ideal uplift in capacity!

Train lengths up from ~79.5m on 319's to ~ 95m with 331's. Really ideal, as the Bolton - Airport leg is always super overcrowded. Faster acceleration and more seating/standing room should reduce dwells and time between stops, once the door release times improve! Hopefully this will allow them to keep time and reduce knock on delays through Castlefield.

A little bit of investment should go a long way in the North, god knows we've needed it.

The west side has six Class 331/1. I saw three on Tuesday at Blackpool North. 331105 to Lime Street, 331107 to Manchester Airport and 331112 to Hazel Grove.

 

[Jozhua]

With some careful parking, all doors of a 6-car 331 formation fit on the platforms at Salford Crescent!

Who would have thought!