Northern Class 331 East:West unit swap

[43367]

Apologies if this has been already covered, but what is going to happen with platform 2 at Shipley, it looks impossible to extend this platform due to the junction with platform 5 at the skipton end and the bridge just past the platform at the Leeds end.

Also another problem is that this platform has signals at both ends of the platform, although the Leeds bound signal on platform 2 isn’t used much now, even if the platform was extended these signals would have to be moved.

Would Selective door operation have to be used on 6 car Leeds-skipton trains using platform 2 as I guess the rear 1-2 coaches would be off the platform.

 

[SimplyLlama]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but in the past week or so, the barriers blocking off the platform extension have been removed at Burley-In-Wharfedale, but not at any other station on the line.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but in the past week or so, the barriers blocking off the platform extension have been removed at Burley-In-Wharfedale, but not at any other station on the line.

Also at Bingley!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Apologies if this has been already covered, but what is going to happen with platform 2 at Shipley, it looks impossible to extend this platform due to the junction with platform 5 at the skipton end and the bridge just past the platform at the Leeds end.

Also another problem is that this platform has signals at both ends of the platform, although the Leeds bound signal on platform 2 isn’t used much now, even if the platform was extended these signals would have to be moved.

Would Selective door operation have to be used on 6 car Leeds-skipton trains using platform 2 as I guess the rear 1-2 coaches would be off the platform.

Unless things have changed, the plan for P2 at Shipley is to extend as far as possible without major engineering being needed, and use the ASDO on 6-car 331 formations.

I think the signal at the "wrong" end of P2 is a holdover from before P1 was built. When the line was electrified and P1 was added, it was decided to retain the bi-directional ability for P2 for contingency- as the crossovers at either end had to stay anyway for the curves towards Bradford.

 

[skyhigh]

When the line was electrified and P1 was added, it was decided to retain the bi-directional ability for P2 for contingency- as the crossovers at either end had to stay anyway for the curves towards Bradford.

Which was a very sensible idea, as I've personally used it several times now to avoid issues.

 

[stan claire]

That is a downgrade. Air conditioned 2+2 with tables for families down to 3+2 with no air conditioning.

It doesn't say it will be 2x323 though, it just says the 323s will allow the Blackpool trains to revert to 6-cars. I'm sure it will end up being 2x323, because that's Northern for you, but it doesn't say it.

I'd say the 323s would be much better suited to the Liverpool electrics, both Liverpool-Wigan and Liverpool-Manchester Airport.

I've seen it discussed in another thread they could keep 1tph as 331 on Airport-Blackpool and the other as 323 like the Northern Connect service in the Arriva era. I'm going to guess they *might* use a mix of both for these services but it's a huge if

I agree with you saying 323s would make more sense on the Liverpool-Wigan service as they'd still have 1tph (the Liverpool-Blackpool) as 331/1 but not on Liverpool-Airport as these are also one of their busier services. If they had the time and money I'd say they should extend the platforms, but seeing as they're tendering for new trains anyway (and apparently from what I've heard they can't afford to refurbish the 323s they've just received) I doubt they'd want to bother putting the time, money and effort into that

 

[xotGD]

It has been mentioned on the December 2024 timetable thread that the introduction of 6-car services in Airedale and Wharfedale is probably being delayed until May 2025. So presumably no more 331s heading East just yet.

 

[reecestrains]

It has been mentioned on the December 2024 timetable thread that the introduction of 6-car services in Airedale and Wharfedale is probably being delayed until May 2025. So presumably no more 331s heading East just yet.

Does this mean the 333's starting on Doncaster going to be delayed as well?

 

[Geeves]

It sounds like everything is delayed including 323s so it would make sense that the 331/333 movements are delayed too

 

[reecestrains]

So that'll mean another 6 months of inconvenience for Airedale and Wharfedale passengers then...

Why can't anything get finished on time anymore?!

 

[reecestrains]

Another 333 was on Doncaster early this morning despite a 331 went into Neville Hill last night...

Realtime Trains | 2B03 0625 Leeds to Doncaster | 31/10/2024

Real-time train running information for 2B03 0625 departure from Leeds to Doncaster on 31/10/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

My guess is crew training. First time this has happened in a number of weeks.

 

[Adam0984]

Just a normal service worked by a full Leeds crew so easy enough to do, after that it becomes awkward as it's a mix of Leeds and Doncaster crew for that diagram. It's helpful to have the 4 car on that 0728 from Doncaster because its a very busy train

 

[reecestrains]

I'm gonna try to catch a Doncaster service out of Leeds with a 333 whenever an opportunity comes up before announcements get changed.
I know it doesn't happen often but I'll take a chance when the opportunity presents itself.

 

[Harvey B]

Just a normal service worked by a full Leeds crew so easy enough to do, after that it becomes awkward as it's a mix of Leeds and Doncaster crew for that diagram. It's helpful to have the 4 car on that 0728 from Doncaster because its a very busy train

Looking at RTT. I happened again this Morning. Will the 0625 service to Doncaster always be a 333? I might catch it and get the old announcements while I can?

 

[reecestrains]

Looking at RTT. I happened again this Morning. Will the 0625 service to Doncaster always be a 333? I might catch it and get the old announcements while I can?

No, it's only on an occasional basis.

All I'd do is keep track and if it comes up then go for it.

 

[InkyScrolls]

I have made recordings of the 333 Doncaster announcements in case anyone is interested:

 

[Harvey B]

I have made recordings of the 333 Doncaster announcements in case anyone is interested:

Thank you so much.

I'm really glad that we've got a full recording of the Doncaster announcements on the 333s before the current PA goes away in a few weeks.

 

[skyhigh]

before the current PA goes away in a few weeks

Don't hold your breath.

 

[Harvey B]

Don't hold your breath.

What do you mean?

 

[skyhigh]

What do you mean?

Not a chance in hell that the original PIS will be completely gone in "a few weeks". There isn't even an initial fitment underway yet.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Not a chance in hell that the original PIS will be completely gone in "a few weeks". There isn't even an initial fitment underway yet.

We (Northern drivers) have been told possibly early next year, at the earliest.

 

[SimplyLlama]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but in the past week or so, the barriers blocking off the platform extension have been removed at Burley-In-Wharfedale, but not at any other station on the line.

I’d like to give an update about this post as when I passed through yesterday they were blocked off again.

 

[skyhigh]

I’d like to give an update about this post as when I passed through yesterday they were blocked off again.

They were removed by mistake.

We (Northern drivers) have been told possibly early next year, at the earliest.

From memory it took around 8 weeks for the first 170 and it sped up with subsequent units. I highly doubt it will be any faster with 333s so even if one was stopped for the work now it wouldn't be ready this year.

 

[Adam0984]

Even if the 1st one went today and each one took a week, assuming they are off to Wolverton with a drag every Saturday the last one would be back the first Saturday of March.
But A) they're not going yet and B) it'll take longer than a week so they'll still be going well into summer 2025

 

[Harvey B]

Even if the 1st one went today and each one took a week, assuming they are off to Wolverton with a drag every Saturday the last one would be back the first Saturday of March.

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the 170s done on site at either Neville Hill or Botanic Gardens?

& Wasn't the original plan to fit do the 333s at Neville Hill?

But A) they're not going yet and B) it'll take longer than a week so they'll still be going well into summer 2025

I did have a feeling that they probably weren't going to start work on the 333s this side of Christmas.

Either way, it's good to know that the Siemens PIS is staying on the 333s a while longer

 

[reecestrains]

Not a chance in hell that the original PIS will be completely gone in "a few weeks". There isn't even an initial fitment underway yet.

We (Northern drivers) have been told possibly early next year, at the earliest.

Delayed again?

 

[InkyScrolls]

Delayed again?

That's one way of looking at it!

 

[david l]

Note that 331/0 diagrams for Mon-Fri from Dec tt change seem to indicate AN 21, NL 10. Currently there are AN 22, NL 9 allocations. Is there an imminent move in the offing for (presume) 331010 which is in use today on the west side??

 

[Grumpy]

The platform extensions at the likes of Guiseley, Menston and Burley look to be physically complete but remain barriered off. Is there any reason for this eg does someone from ORR have to inspect them?
Keeping them barriered off seems daft and at some cost-I noticed the Burley upside platform barrier had blown over in the wind yesterday

The barriers are still there, at Burley at least. I wasn’t paying attention at the other stations

 

[SimplyLlama]

The barriers are still there, at Burley at least. I wasn’t paying attention at the other stations

When I passed through yesterday I’m certain they were also there at Menston and Guiseley!