Northern coupling 158s and 153s

[DanielDANIEL12]

Recently I have noticed Northern have been coupling 153's with 158's, this seems rather strange, something I haven't seen before, as 153 is a pacer, do you reckon they are using them up before they are taken out of service? It's quite a shame they are keeping the 150, in my opinion it is the most boring and generic train around, almost as bad as the pendelino.

 

[sprinterguy]

Class 153s aren't Pacers, they're single carriage Sprinter units, built by British Leyland in the late eighties as 2 carriage units and split in the early nineties.

Class 158 + 153 formations have been a common sight around the Leeds area of the Northern network for years, and are a typical formation used on the Settle & Carlisle route between Leeds and Carlisle.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Recently I have noticed Northern have been coupling 153's with 158's, this seems rather strange, something I haven't seen before, as 153 is a pacer, do you reckon they are using them up before they are taken out of service? It's quite a shame they are keeping the 150, in my opinion it is the most boring and generic train around, almost as bad as the pendelino.

I don’t think boring or generic comes into the TOCs decision on what trains to have in their fleets. Quite rightly. In fact possibly the opposite as larger fleets tend to be more cost effective to maintain in the longer term. And as an enthusiast my preference is mainly down to passenger experience, space, seats, comfort, as well as a preference for electric trains due to environmental reasons and performance.

 

[anamyd]

Pacers (14x), Sprinters (15x) and 170 Turbostars can all work in multiple with each other. GWR have run the 153+158 formation you speak of (not just Northern) as well as 143+153 combos, TfW (formerly ATW) have run both 150+158 and 150+153 combos and frequently run 142/143+150 combos as well as 143+142 combos, Northern have run 150+142, 144+142, 156+142 and even 158+142 combos as well as 155+153 combos (153s were converted from most of the 155s) and South Western Railway run 158+159 combos. ScotRail run or at least have run 158+170 combos, and West Midlands Railway (formerly London Midland) have run 153+170 combos for years and years. The classes can't be too "far apart" though; 150+170 combos (for example) can do passenger service, but 14x and 170 combos can only do ECS.

There are a couple of things to note: 1) if the train contains units of matching/mixed classes that are any of 150/2, 153, 155, 156, 158, 159, the train can be fully walked through, whereas if there are any units of classes 142, 143, 144, 150/0, 150/1 or 170 in the train, the train can't be fully walked through, and 2) in a train formed of units of different max speeds, the driver is responsible, when driving the train from a unit with a max speed higher than the unit with the lowest max speed, for not exceeding the max speed of the unit in the train with the lowest max speed (e.g. in a 153+158 combo driven from the 158, even though the 158 has a max speed of 90mph, the presence of the 153 in the train means that the train must not be driven faster than the max speed of the 153 which is 75mph). A 153 engine blew up in the past at 100mph, because a driver apparently didn't realise there was a 153 on the back of his 170!

 

[supervc-10]

SWT used to have some 170s, operated in multiple with 159s. This was a long time ago, according to Wikipedia SWT passed their 170s on to TPE in 2006.

 

[Andyh82]

If this thread is here, somewhere clued up, imagine what will happen in 2020 when the general public realises that class 150/155s etc aren’t actually pacers.

 

[anamyd]

If this thread is here, somewhere clued up, imagine what will happen in 2020 when the general public realises that class 150/155s etc aren’t actually pacers.

Northern: We've just withdrawn the last Pacer!
Passenger: (shows Northern 150 photo) What's this then...?
Northern: a Sprinter.
Passenger: oh for ****'s sake...

 

[anamyd]

SWT used to have some 170s, operated in multiple with 159s. This was a long time ago, according to Wikipedia SWT passed their 170s on to TPE in 2006.

ah yes

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Pacers (14x), Sprinters (15x) and 170 Turbostars can all work in multiple with each other. GWR have run the 153+158 formation you speak of (not just Northern) as well as 143+153 combos, TfW (formerly ATW) have run both 150+158 and 150+153 combos and frequently run 142/143+150 combos as well as 143+142 combos, Northern have run 150+142, 144+142, 156+142 and even 158+142 combos as well as 155+153 combos (153s were converted from most of the 155s) and South Western Railway run 158+159 combos. ScotRail run or at least have run 158+170 combos, and West Midlands Railway (formerly London Midland) have run 153+170 combos for years and years. The classes can't be too "far apart" though; 150+170 combos (for example) can do passenger service, but 14x and 170 combos can only do ECS.

There are a couple of things to note: 1) if the train contains units of matching/mixed classes that are any of 150/2, 153, 155, 156, 158, 159, the train can be fully walked through, whereas if there are any units of classes 142, 143, 144, 150/0, 150/1 or 170 in the train, the train can't be fully walked through, and 2) in a train formed of units of different max speeds, the driver is responsible, when driving the train from a unit with a max speed higher than the unit with the lowest max speed, for not exceeding the max speed of the unit in the train with the lowest max speed (e.g. in a 153+158 combo driven from the 158, even though the 158 has a max speed of 90mph, the presence of the 153 in the train means that the train must not be driven faster than the max speed of the 153 which is 75mph). A 153 engine blew up in the past at 100mph, because a driver apparently didn't realise there was a 153 on the back of his 170!

If I might add, sorry, at Leeds (from my bedroom window at the Ibis Budget Hotel in Leeds) probably in the morning on the 05/04/19, I spotted a 158+170 combination (heading into Leeds station).

 

[hexagon789]

Class 153s aren't Pacers, they're single carriage Sprinter units, built by British Leyland in the late eighties as 2 carriage units and split in the early nineties.

Unless the OP means 143s and 153s is a typo?

A 153 engine blew up in the past at 100mph, because a driver apparently didn't realise there was a 153 on the back of his 170!

That's probably happened with a few classes, I've heard of a Pacer being taken up to 90 by a 158 and leaving bits of gearbox in the four-foot!

Northern: We've just withdrawn the last Pacer!
Passenger: (shows Northern 150 photo) What's this then...?
Northern: a Sprinter.
Passenger: oh for ****'s sake...

 

[PHILIPE]

Pacers (14x), Sprinters (15x) and 170 Turbostars can all work in multiple with each other. GWR have run the 153+158 formation you speak of (not just Northern) as well as 143+153 combos, TfW (formerly ATW) have run both 150+158 and 150+153 combos and frequently run 142/143+150 combos as well as 143+142 combos, Northern have run 150+142, 144+142, 156+142 and even 158+142 combos as well as 155+153 combos (153s were converted from most of the 155s) and South Western Railway run 158+159 combos. ScotRail run or at least have run 158+170 combos, and West Midlands Railway (formerly London Midland) have run 153+170 combos for years and years. The classes can't be too "far apart" though; 150+170 combos (for example) can do passenger service, but 14x and 170 combos can only do ECS.

There are a couple of things to note: 1) if the train contains units of matching/mixed classes that are any of 150/2, 153, 155, 156, 158, 159, the train can be fully walked through, whereas if there are any units of classes 142, 143, 144, 150/0, 150/1 or 170 in the train, the train can't be fully walked through, and 2) in a train formed of units of different max speeds, the driver is responsible, when driving the train from a unit with a max speed higher than the unit with the lowest max speed, for not exceeding the max speed of the unit in the train with the lowest max speed (e.g. in a 153+158 combo driven from the 158, even though the 158 has a max speed of 90mph, the presence of the 153 in the train means that the train must not be driven faster than the max speed of the 153 which is 75mph). A 153 engine blew up in the past at 100mph, because a driver apparently didn't realise there was a 153 on the back of his 170!

If you don't mind me adding, TFW also run 158+153 and 158+142/3 Combos usually on Maesteg and Ebbw Vale routes.

 

[trentside]

East Midlands Trains also use 153+158 combinations with some regularity. Most often you see them working Nottingham to Skegness in the summer, but due to recent rolling stock shortages they do occasionally get to Liverpool.

 

[supervc-10]

And 158/156 mashups on the Liverpool run. Seen them a fair few times going through Manchester.

 

[matchmaker]

Scotrail regularly used 170/158 combos on Glasgow-Aberdeen services.

 

[anamyd]

If you don't mind me adding, TFW also run 158+153 and 158+142/3 Combos usually on Maesteg and Ebbw Vale routes.

wow, really...? did not know that! would love to see some photos or video of that!!!

 

[hexagon789]

Scotrail regularly used 170/158 combos on Glasgow-Aberdeen services.

In the 1990s 150+158 combos were quite common on Fife Circle duties.

 

[anamyd]

Unless the OP means 143s and 153s is a typo?

I don't believe Northern have any 143s. As as I understand it, the 140 quantities of network Pacers are split up to their 3 TOCs as follows:

Northern - 102 Pacers (79 142s, 13 2-car 144s, 10 3-car 144s)
Transport for Wales - 30 Pacers (15 142s, 15 143s)
Great Western Railway - 8 Pacers (8 143s only)

 

[snookertam]

Scotrail regularly used 170/158 combos on Glasgow-Aberdeen services.

Although rarely diagrammed in passenger service, there have been known to be 156 + 170 workings out of Glasgow Queen Street. However the services in question were timed at cl156 timings and with regular passenger stops so little chance of the driver over-reaching the max speed of 75mph.

 

[hexagon789]

I don't believe Northern have any 143s. As as I understand it, the 140 quantities of network Pacers are split up to their 3 TOCs as follows:

Northern - 102 Pacers (79 142s, 13 2-car 144s, 10 3-car 144s)
Transport for Wales - 30 Pacers (15 142s, 15 143s)
Great Western Railway - 8 Pacers (8 143s only)

Fair enough, wasn't really sure of the Pacer distribution.

 

[anamyd]

Fair enough, wasn't really sure of the Pacer distribution.

Sometime this year, before the mass withdrawal, the 142s may temporarily change to 71 with Northern (bringing their total Pacers down to 94) and 38 with Transport for Wales

 

[Bungle965]

wow, really...? did not know that! would love to see some photos or video of that!!!

Ten second search on Flickr brought up this lash up (admittedly not TfW)
Flickr link
Sam

 

[anamyd]

Ten second search on Flickr brought up this lash up (admittedly not TfW)
Flickr link
Sam

thanks anyway

 

[hexagon789]

Sometime this year, before the mass withdrawal, the 142s may temporarily change to 71 with Northern (bringing their total Pacers down to 94) and 38 with Transport for Wales

Is that because they equipped some with disabled toilets? Or something else?

 

[Paul_10]

Talking of combinations, has anyone seen or ever photographed a 144+156 combo? Closest i seen was when a 3 car 144 shared a platform with a 156 in Lancaster although not coupled together.

 

[anamyd]

Is that because they equipped some with disabled toilets? Or something else?

PRM mods are more than disabled toilets. The Pacers will be withdrawn for 2020 (on TfW valleys lines, they will be replaced by 769s, and around half of their 150/2s internally "cascaded" from wider network services after being displaced by 170s and 230s) but TfW will be taking 8 142s from Northern as soon as they're made surplus by 195 introduction, which will temporarily (mid to late 2019) take their total number of Pacers from 30 up to 38, before going down to 0 for 2020. This will be to allow their 150/2s (staying until 2023) to be PRM modified quicker.

 

[Bungle965]

Talking of combinations, has anyone seen or ever photographed a 144+156 combo? Closest i seen was when a 3 car 144 shared a platform with a 156 in Lancaster although not coupled together.

Flickr is again your friend.
https://flic.kr/p/eiq2j9
Sam

 

[Fisherman80]

Talking of combinations, has anyone seen or ever photographed a 144+156 combo? Closest i seen was when a 3 car 144 shared a platform with a 156 in Lancaster although not coupled together.

Hi Paul,
As a teenager in the mid 1990s I used to regularly travel onboard a 156/144 combo over the Settle to Carlisle. Most of the time I had to ride on the 144 because by the time the train arrived at my local station (Bingley) from Leeds in the direction of Carlisle,the 156 would nearly always be full. I seem to remember over half of the seats on the 156 had reservation labels on them.
Traveling back from Carlisle and getting off at Bingley or Keighley was great fun. The 144 was usually quite empty and on the odd occasion I had a carriage to myself!
Whatever people think about the 144s,in my experience,it was the best train to travel over Settle to Carlisle as there was no head rests to block the views and even better empty!
Going back on topic with the thread,153 and 158 combos are very common on the Settle to Carlisle and have been for over 15 years.

 

[hexagon789]

PRM mods are more than disabled toilets. The Pacers will be withdrawn for 2020 (on TfW valleys lines, they will be replaced by 769s, and around half of their 150/2s internally "cascaded" from wider network services after being displaced by 170s and 230s) but TfW will be taking 8 142s from Northern as soon as they're made surplus by 195 introduction, which will temporarily (mid to late 2019) take their total number of Pacers from 30 up to 38, before going down to 0 for 2020. This will be to allow their 150/2s (staying until 2023) to be PRM modified quicker.

Thank you, but am I correct that some Pacers did get accessible mods?

 

[43096]

Thank you, but am I correct that some Pacers did get accessible mods?

One Pacer. 144012 as a demonstrator.

 

[D365]

Thank you, but am I correct that some Pacers did get accessible mods?

Only the one "ePacer" prototype.