Northern Customer Promise - Delay Repay

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Mcr Warrior

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According to the (new) Northern Customer Promise leaflet/brochure, for a delay of between 30 and 59 minutes, you can claim delay repay compensation of 50% of the cost of your single ticket or the relevant portion of your return ticket, or one single ticket to anywhere on the Northern network.

:?: So, to make best use of this, where could you go on the Northern network (for me this would be from/to Manchester Stns - and - if using the above-mentioned single ticket - how would you get back home again?)
 
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LexyBoy

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Best use? Presumably use it to somewhere you actually want to go to.

If you want to go furthest, I guess Whitby or Chathill, from Manchester. Of course if you only have a single you'll need to buy a ticket home again which would cost as much as a return there in the first place.

You'd do better to start somewhere other than Manchester though, like Penzance. <D
 

SeanG

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I presumed that it'd be valid on Northern only.

Of course if you had 2 delay repays you could have a full return (by way of 2 singles)
 

hairyhandedfool

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Given that, in this case, you are only going to get a single ticket, it might actually be worth considering what you would get for the 50% value because, as noted, you are going to have to get back from wherever you go.
 

yorksrob

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Yes, it's a bit of a pointless offering to be frank.

Choose the voucher.

The return ticket for delays of over an hour could be quite useful though.
 

Merseysider

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Yes, it's a bit of a pointless offering to be frank.

Choose the voucher.

The return ticket for delays of over an hour could be quite useful though.
Not necessarily pointless - it could easily be used as part of a circular journey or with a different TOC advance going back.
 

yorksrob

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Not necessarily pointless - it could easily be used as part of a circular journey or with a different TOC advance going back.

I doubt there will be a great deal of call for circular journeys amongst the general public. They should have kept it simple for a day out, i.e. a return journey or a day voucher.
 

Merseysider

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I doubt there will be a great deal of call for circular journeys amongst the general public. They should have kept it simple for a day out, i.e. a return journey or a day voucher.
Yeah, I suppose you're right, and I preferred the day vouchers too, but I still think it's nice to be given a choice as opposed to the only option being 50% compensation value which, for some journeys, would be negligible.
 
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gray1404

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Yeah, I suppose you're right, and I preferred the day vouchers too, but I still think it's nice to be given a choice as opposed to the only option being 50% compensation value which, for some journeys, would be negligible.

I agree. It is good to be given the choice. Their is nothing more frustrating then to suffer a severe delay and then for the compensation to be such as amount whereby it was not even worth claiming. Even a single free journey, if used correctly, could be of the value of 100% of the delay journey concerned.

Personally I think that delay repay claims should be such as the minimum a customer should receive is £5. I am not saying that if the amount of the claim is less then this the customer should not be allowed to claim. Rather, I am saying that if the value of the claim is less then this then the TOC should have to give £5 to mitigate for the delay.
 

MikeWh

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... if the value of the claim is less then this then the TOC should have to give £5 to mitigate for the delay.

You'd bankrupt commuter TOCs then. A 30 minute delay on many journeys would yield more than the price of the ticket.
 
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I have received Delay Repay twice in the last 12 months. £3.50 from East Midlands and £3.00 from Virgin. The sums are small as they were against Advanced fares with SNR Railcard discount.
Recently I was delayed 41 min's on a Northern Bolton to Wigan train, could I make a claim? I was traveling on a TfGM Bus Pass.
 

gray1404

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I have received Delay Repay twice in the last 12 months. £3.50 from East Midlands and £3.00 from Virgin. The sums are small as they were against Advanced fares with SNR Railcard discount.
Recently I was delayed 41 min's on a Northern Bolton to Wigan train, could I make a claim? I was traveling on a TfGM Bus Pass.

Under "old" Northern I had a delay of 65 minutes and was travelling on a Merseytravel free pass. I phoned up their customer services and I was told that even though the value of the ticket was zero it doesn't mean that they do not have discretion to pay out and that they have done this in the past for others. The result was that he took my details over the phone and sent me one of their free day passes.

I would argue that under the new Northern Delay Repay scheme then you could claim for delays even when travelling on a PTE free ticket PROVIDED you opted for a free single ticket anywhere on Northern for a delay of 30-59 minutes, 2 single tickets for a delay of 60-119 minutes or 2 return tickets for a delay of 120+ minutes. (rather then opting for the appropriate monetary value.)

I would scan a copy of my ticket if I were you and email this over with details of the delay or photocopy and send a letter and see what you get back.
 

toffeedanish

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I'd like to know what I'd actually have in my hand if I opted for the free ticket option. Its not clear to me at present.

1) The wording on the website says a free single ticket to anywhere on the Northern network. It does not say only to be used on Northern. This may be the intent, but this is not what it says.

2) A free ticket to a Northern station then, but from where? As there is nowhere for me to specify where on the form, I presume from any station?

3) Will there be a 'box' on the ticket to fill in origin and destination? If not, what stops it becoming a day-ranger type ticket?

4) Hopefully Northern are not silly enough to send a ticket valid only from the station from which I started my journey on the day of delay: this is rarely going to be my home station.

5) *If* the ticket is only valid on Northern, then by what route? Any route? Routeing guide does not apply because it is probable that I would already be on a normally invalid route by having to stick to Northern services. Can I do York-Whitby via Barrow? Or would it need to be via Appleby (or indeed, referring to my first point, can I use TPX to Middlesbrough?)
 
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gray1404

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It would be useful if anyone has been issued with any of these free single journey or return journey vouchers by Northern, since they started Delay Repay, that they posted the full details (or copies of the vouchers) up here so we can see.
 

Via Bank

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I agree. It is good to be given the choice. Their is nothing more frustrating then to suffer a severe delay and then for the compensation to be such as amount whereby it was not even worth claiming. Even a single free journey, if used correctly, could be of the value of 100% of the delay journey concerned.

Personally I think that delay repay claims should be such as the minimum a customer should receive is £5. I am not saying that if the amount of the claim is less then this the customer should not be allowed to claim. Rather, I am saying that if the value of the claim is less then this then the TOC should have to give £5 to mitigate for the delay.

Hmm. This probably would cause problems for commuter TOCs as MikeWh has suggested, particularly in the London area where PAYG is king.

On the other hand I would argue that, while for delays of an hour or less compensation should usually not be more than the single fare for the delayed journey, there is a case for compensation (well) over and above this for delays of over an hour - particularly if it includes a period on a stationary train without lighting, toilets, air con, water etc.

Recall the incident at Clapham Junction a while ago with people trapped in crowded trains for three, four hours, often despite being metres away from station platforms. Many received somewhere in the region of £3 - which they rightly considered insulting in relation to the amount of their time that was wasted and the conditions they were in. Forcing more generous compensation payouts for situations such as this might galvanise TOCs into improving crisis handling, spending less time fannying around when deciding whether to de-train or not, or retrofit backup power for hotel facilities so pax at least have somewhere to go to the toilet.

I still believe that automatic scaled compensation à la the new C2C system is the way forward. Right now it seems certain TOCs take "under 30 minutes late" as a target, to the passenger's detriment when trains regularly arrive ten, twenty, twenty-five minutes late. Right time should mean right time.
 

hairyhandedfool

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It would be useful if anyone has been issued with any of these free single journey or return journey vouchers by Northern, since they started Delay Repay, that they posted the full details (or copies of the vouchers) up here so we can see.

I have now seen a picture of one (at least it seems to be genuine enough to be real, I honestly wouldn't know how to tell!) thanks to a guard who came across one, though it is quite blurry and not really suitable for reproduction here, if I see a better one I'll try to post it in this thread.

I'd like to know what I'd actually have in my hand if I opted for the free ticket option. Its not clear to me at present.

1) The wording on the website says a free single ticket to anywhere on the Northern network. It does not say only to be used on Northern. This may be the intent, but this is not what it says....

The terms on the back of the pass state that it is valid "for the journey described on the front face", on the date shown, and only on "Northern scheduled services". An all day pass is valid for 1 calender day, on "any Northern routes"

2) A free ticket to a Northern station then, but from where? As there is nowhere for me to specify where on the form, I presume from any station?....

There are spaces on the front for two named stations. It is your responsibility to make sure the boxes are correctly filled before use.

3) Will there be a 'box' on the ticket to fill in origin and destination? If not, what stops it becoming a day-ranger type ticket? ....

There are boxes on the front for users name, origin, destination, outward date, return date and an authorised signature. There are also tick boxes for Adult, Child, Family, Single, Return, and All Day.

4) Hopefully Northern are not silly enough to send a ticket valid only from the station from which I started my journey on the day of delay: this is rarely going to be my home station....

Fear not, Northern don't even send you the pass, everything to do with delay repay claims is outsourced to Carillion.

5) *If* the ticket is only valid on Northern, then by what route? Any route? Routeing guide does not apply because it is probable that I would already be on a normally invalid route by having to stick to Northern services. Can I do York-Whitby via Barrow? Or would it need to be via Appleby (or indeed, referring to my first point, can I use TPX to Middlesbrough?)

The pass "is issued subject to the National Rail Conditions of Carriage", beyond that I honestly couldn't say.
 

hairyhandedfool

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So are they doing the all day pass again after all ?

Apparently so. Getting any sort of meaningful information on this subject (or any other subject for that matter) is harder than getting snow to settle on freshly spewed volcanic rock.
 

yorksrob

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Apparently so. Getting any sort of meaningful information on this subject (or any other subject for that matter) is harder than getting snow to settle on freshly spewed volcanic rock.

Great if they are then !

I presume that it came in response to the "return ticket" option perhaps ?
 

toffeedanish

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Thank you hairyhandedfool for the information. I think I will be taking the free ticket option then, and (for a single) doing York-Whitby, which would have to be accepted via Appleby. I think via Barrow would be stretching the non-existent rules.
 
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hairyhandedfool

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Great if they are then !

I presume that it came in response to the "return ticket" option perhaps ?

I think the voucher is just a standard print run to cover all eventualities, but I can't get any confirmation. Frontline staff aren't getting any information, Carillion seem to be giving out anything they like and all levels of manglement are silent.

Thank you hairyhandedfool for the information. I think I will be taking the free ticket option then, and (for a single) doing York-Whitby, which would have to be accepted via Appleby. I think via Barrow would be stretching the non-existent rules.

You're welcome, I hope it proves helpful to people, staff and passenger alike.
 

gray1404

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I notice the wording on the back of the new Northern vouchers they give out for a single or return journey says that it is issued subject to the National Rail Conditions of carriage. Does that mean therefore one would be subject to the provisions in such concerning the route you can take i.e. a direct train between the two stations you enter into the voucher or indeed the routing guide?

I would argue this is somewhat unfair given the wording of the Northern Customer Promise does state "ticket to anywhere on the Northern network" So I would say that as the two stations you want to travel between a on the Northern network then it should be allowed.

Would it be possible to do a Liverpool - Preston - Barrow - Carlisle - Newcastle - Middlesbrough - Whitby journey all with Northern using one of these vouchers on the basis you are 1. sticking to Northern only trains and 2. travelling between the 2 stations entered on the voucher.

There was a picture of one uploaded onto a thread but I do not seem able to find it. On the positive, I seem to recall you can enter a different return date (correct me if I am wrong so the return is not limited to a day return.
 

Merseysider

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That's a permitted route, or was when I checked a few months ago. In any case, the TOC restriction on the ticket makes it necessary to take this route so I don't believe the Routeing Guide comes into it
 
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najaB

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I notice the wording on the back of the new Northern vouchers they give out for a single or return journey says that it is issued subject to the National Rail Conditions of carriage. Does that mean therefore one would be subject to the provisions in such concerning the route you can take i.e. a direct train between the two stations you enter into the voucher or indeed the routing guide?
Yes, they would be subject to the NRCoC.

Since the voucher is valid for one return journey between any two stations on the Northern Network that effectively makes them zonal and so I contend that Condition 13 (b) "If you are using a Zonal Ticket you may travel in trains which take any route within the zone or zones shown on the ticket." would apply.
 

gray1404

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Do you would say Condition 13 (b) applies even though you have to enter the station names onto the ticket rather then it being a day's unlimited travel on their entire network. Good. Many thanks for that - very useful.
 

bb21

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I notice the wording on the back of the new Northern vouchers they give out for a single or return journey says that it is issued subject to the National Rail Conditions of carriage. Does that mean therefore one would be subject to the provisions in such concerning the route you can take i.e. a direct train between the two stations you enter into the voucher or indeed the routing guide?

I would argue this is somewhat unfair given the wording of the Northern Customer Promise does state "ticket to anywhere on the Northern network" So I would say that as the two stations you want to travel between a on the Northern network then it should be allowed.

Would it be possible to do a Liverpool - Preston - Barrow - Carlisle - Newcastle - Middlesbrough - Whitby journey all with Northern using one of these vouchers on the basis you are 1. sticking to Northern only trains and 2. travelling between the 2 stations entered on the voucher.

There was a picture of one uploaded onto a thread but I do not seem able to find it. On the positive, I seem to recall you can enter a different return date (correct me if I am wrong so the return is not limited to a day return.

You are overthinking all this.
 

najaB

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Do you would say Condition 13 (b) applies even though you have to enter the station names onto the ticket rather then it being a day's unlimited travel on their entire network. Good. Many thanks for that - very useful.
It's no different to 'regular' point to point tickets that are issued to a London Zone - it is valid for one journey to any station within the zone by pretty much any route.
 

greatkingrat

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Although you might get queried if you tried to do something like Piccadilly - Victoria via Liverpool as arguably that is really a return journey not a single.
 

gray1404

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That's a permitted route, or was when I checked a few months ago. In any case, the TOC restriction on the ticket makes it necessary to take this route so I don't believe the Routeing Guide comes into it

Thanks Jake! :)
 
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