Northern Diagrams

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by darloscott, 13 Apr 2015.

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  1. darloscott

    darloscott Member

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    Ok some may think I am crazy but in my spare time I've been trying to put together Northern's unit diagrams for the current timetable (Dec 14-May 15)... Some interesting little quirks when you look into them!

    No doubt the project will throw up a load of questions that need answering, but one to start off with...
    What goes out on 3T02 0457 Leeds-Hebden with the 153? (153 ends up there having started at Cleethorpes the previous day!). This would work 2T02 back, then the 0651 Leeds-Man Vic and 0826 return.
    Whatever the 2nd unit is it works the 2126 Vic-Leeds the previous night to overnight in 10B with the 153 arriving at 0029 from Sheffield.
     
  2. Adam0984

    Adam0984 Member

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    3T02 is a 155 now arriving off 2126 Man Vic to Leeds the previous night. It then goes onto 0651 Man Vic
     
  3. Trainfan344

    Trainfan344 Established Member

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    Quick hint, everything to Stoke-on-Trent is a 323
     
  4. darloscott

    darloscott Member

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    Cheers, that makes sense as it then dumps the 153 when it gets back to Leeds, which appears to run off upto Holbeck until later when it joins up with a (150?) off the Knottingley circuit to go out to Goole and back
     
  5. Adam0984

    Adam0984 Member

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    Now I didn't know that and where the 153 came from for the goole. I brought the 155 in last night off the Vic and the 153 off the Sheffield so over 2 nights I've brought 3T02 in
     
  6. darloscott

    darloscott Member

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    Yeah it finishes up at Neville Hill after another trip to Knottingley on it's own
     
  7. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Same for Hadfield/Glossop.

    Crewe services are all booked as 323s except the daily Crewe-Bolton service.

    The 07:15 Macclesfield-Manchester service is booked as a DMU working, all the other Northern services to Macclesfield are 323s.

    I think everything to Alderley Edge services is booked as a 323s and almost everything to the Airport minus one or two evening services.

    Everything to Hazel Grove is a DMU.
     
  8. darloscott

    darloscott Member

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    Well it appears that Northern have 7 diagrams for 156's with TPE as one will swap each day with a unit off the Cumbrian Coast.
    Works 2C30 0609 Millom-Barrow, 2C35 0651 Barrow-Carlisle, 2C42 0938 Carlisle-Lancaster then scurries off empty to Preston and joins the 1U67 1336 Blackpool North-Man Airport at 1407
    Balancing working going the other way appears to be with TPE until 1N32 1310 Barrow-Lancaster, then Northern 2C39 1420 Lancaster-Barrow and onwards
     
  9. darloscott

    darloscott Member

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    Well I spent 2 hours at Leeds on Tuesday afternoon peak working on diagrams etc and then went to Stevenage with a friend early on Wednesday from York. One question thrown up from my sightings....
    144007 (front) arrived with 158845 (rear) from Neville Hill as 5N35 and worked 2N35 1748 Leeds-Sheffield (via Moorthorpe), which then returns as 2N38 at 1919, arriving in Leeds at 2034. This then works 2T98 at 2052 upto York, arriving 2130.
    That would mean the 158 would be against the blocks at York (p6) and the 144 facing Leeds. Now this is where I get confused as 144007 was in York (p7) at 0545 on Wed (assuming it worked 3K89 to Selby). This means 158845 would have to have worked back to Leeds on its own as 2T95 (2213/2255) Tue night, which then joins with 2E67 (2126 Vic-Leeds) to go to Sheffield.
    Is there a shunt move that doesn't appear on RTT? There are a few that do, interestingly.

    Also, on a related note, does anyone know what the two 142's that work 5A55 > 2A55 Newcastle-Darlington > 5A55 Darlington-York work earlier in the day? I am assuming they must go upto Heaton around lunchtime?
     
    Last edited: 12 Jun 2015
  10. Adam0984

    Adam0984 Member

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    Right here goes my little input into this not all this could be factually accurate but is my observations. 5N35/2N35 seems to be a random allocation of unit types each night not sure if it's just what they have or that It's planned because they need a 158 at Sheffield that night instead of a 144 for example. I'm pretty sure when it gets to Sheffield it splits so that would mean that the 144 comes back alone then goes up to York and 2213 back which I know is booked a 144. And as far as I know goes up to Neville Hill on a normal day if there is a concert or event on in Leeds it might be used to strengthen a service as in the post above.

    As for 5/2A55 sometimes it can be the same 2 142s that go up earlier from York just go Heaton to be fueled
     
  11. clagmonster

    clagmonster Established Member

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    Scott, do you plan to publish your information as you go? I would be very grateful to see even the partial diagrams.
     
  12. darloscott

    darloscott Member

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    Hmm that's a good idea - and I guess it would help people to have some input too... Will look into it
     
  13. samj

    samj Member

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    Are there any double unit workings in the North East around Newcastle/Middlesbrough?
     
  14. darloscott

    darloscott Member

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    Mainly empty stock moves at the start and end of the day, but the 0626 Newcastle-Hexham and 0742 Hexham-Middlesbrough is booked as 2x 142. They split in Middlesbrough and one goes back, the other ends up on a Darlington-Saltburn diagram, which appears to replace a unit that's been away from depot for 2 days at that point (hence needs fuel/wash).
     
  15. rg177

    rg177 Established Member

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    0742 off Hexham was a Single 142 on Friday. That explains why it was completely rammed on arriving at Newcastle...
     
  16. 03_179

    03_179 Member

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    I am do a little project at the moment, would you be willing the share the diagrams for the Hexham (also darlo/Newcastle) to/from Nunthorpe and the Middlesborough diagrams with me please?
     
  17. glbotu

    glbotu Member

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    I find unit allocations in the North East to be somewhat of a crapshoot. I've known the 0624 2A52 Saltburn - Newcastle to be single 142, double 142 and single 156 in about a 2:1:4 ratio. When it's a single 142, it's completely rammed from Durham.
     
  18. darloscott

    darloscott Member

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    Can anyone confirm that the diesel unit at Skipton on a night is a 3 car 144?
    Works (I believe) 0628 SHF-LDS, 0748 return, spare at Sheffield til 1330 York and back, 1726 SHF-DON, 1826 DON-SHF, 1929 SHF-DON, 2127 DON-LDS, 2226 LDS-SKI
    Next day works 0541 SKI-LAN, 0707 LAN-LDS, upto Holbeck for refuel/clean, 1248 LDS-SHF, 1414 SHF-LDS, 1548 LDS-SHF, 1714 SHF-LDS, 1859 LDS-KNA then empty to Harrogate to stay the night there
     
  19. Adam0984

    Adam0984 Member

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    its a 2 car 14X
    The sets that do the 0748 Leeds to Sheffield split and one does 0914 back to Leeds and other does 0929 I believe which possibly leads into the 1330 to York

    The 1248 Leeds to Sheffield comes off Neville Hill not Holbeck but could be correct for the others

    The next day after that is ECS HGT to KNA. KNA to LDS. 0929 LDS to YRK via HGT and back
     
  20. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    What time does the daily Crewe to Bolton service leave Crewe and does it go via Stockport or the Styal line?
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    There are, of course, the Northern DMU operated Southport to Manchester Airport services.
     
  21. darloscott

    darloscott Member

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    Cheers Adam, looking at photos that looks mostly right.
    Only thing I know different is the 0915 Leeds and 0929 York work off the 0818 arrival from Adwick, not the Leeds one.
     
  22. Adam0984

    Adam0984 Member

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    Fair dos it's a while since I saw this train splitting
     
  23. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    It's currently Crewe-Salford because of the Farnworth works: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y31575/2015/07/20/advanced

    It was one of the services Northern didn't have enough 323s to cover once they enhanced the Stoke and Airport services. It originally terminated at Oxford Rd but finished up getting extended to a non-electrified destination - just like the 17:23 Piccadilly-Hazel Grove got extended to Chinley.

    I meant the Piccadilly-Airport stoppers. Although, as Northern are currently a 323 down the chance of a DMU appearing has increased.
     
  24. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    How does one write the results of the now famed Northern random unit generator into such an output document? ;)
     
  25. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    The working formula for non-electrified ex-FNW routes is the below:

    A = Non-electrified ex-FNW route (excluding Buxton and Ormskirk)
    B = Unit type
    C = Any diesel unit or combination of diesel units out of 142s, 150s or 156s
    D = Any diesel unit or combination of diesel units out of 150s or 156s
    E = Any diesel unit or combination of diesel units out of 142s, 150s, 153s or 156s
    F = modern DMU
    G = Buxton line service
    H = Ormskirk line service
    I = Non-Northern service

    Where A = true:
    B = C

    Where G = true:
    B = D

    Where H = true:
    B = E

    If F = true:
    I = true (Passengers and crews can look on in envy)

    Now I'll just wait for someone from Northern to accuse me of hacking in to their computer system. ;)
     
  26. Philip C

    Philip C Member

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    I had understood that this extension was done to better serve Chinley or in connection with improving Hope Valley stoppers or some other such reason. Your posting suggests that it was projected to reach a wire-free destination or perhaps just to get it out of the way.

    I can understand an efficiency argument for joining up Crewe-Manchester diesel trains with diesel trains from Manchester north-westwards (terminal platform occupancy, turn-round time, through passenger benefits etc.) but don't understand where this fits with Manchester-HG-Chinley workings. Could you explain please?
     
  27. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    I just commented on it being done before someone suggests it can be switched to a 319 now. Both services were originally only DMUs because the 323s didn't stretch far enough but can't be switched to EMUs now because they've been extended to non-electrified destinations.

    I'm pretty sure the actual reason for it being done was because a peak time South TPE service included a Chinley call and was rammed, so when Northern got the ex-LM 150s they were given responsibility for running an additional Manchester-Chinley service in the evening peak, to relieve pressure on South TPE.
     
    Last edited: 17 Jul 2015
  28. Philip C

    Philip C Member

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    Thanks for the clarification. :)
     
  29. darloscott

    darloscott Member

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    Well I've completed my first (sub)class - the 158/3's I have 7 diagrams (for 8 units). 4 on Leeds-Man Vic and 3 York-Blackpool's. All seems to work nicely!
     
  30. PHILIPE

    PHILIPE Established Member

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    Please don't think I'm over pedantic, but they are referred to as 158/9s
     
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