Northern Diagrams

[Thomas6187]

I'm pretty sure the actual reason for it being done was because a peak time South TPE service included a Chinley call and was rammed, so when Northern got the ex-LM 150s they were given responsibility for running an additional Manchester-Chinley service in the evening peak, to relieve pressure on South TPE.

At which point the TPE service ceased to call that service at Chinley

 

[darloscott]

Please don't think I'm over pedantic, but they are referred to as 158/9s

Whoops sorry using the coding I've devised for myself... Meant the 3-car 158s. 158752-759

 

[clagmonster]

Which are actually 158/0s.

158/9s are the ex-WYPTE, 158901-158910, all two car sets. Although the WR have reformed some 158/0s into three car sets and renumbered them as 158/9s.

 

[darloscott]

Just working on some Cumbrian Coast diagrams... first question thrown up is anyone know what happens to the 153 which finishes up at Carlisle on 5C39 from Workington? Have a feeling it goes to Leeds next morning but could be wrong...

 

[Adam0984]

Yes it does get attached to the 1st Carlisle to Leeds unless the coast still need it. Then does 0849 Leeds to Carlisle and back then back at Leeds detaches and goes to Man Vic possibly 1551

 

[darloscott]

Yes it does get attached to the 1st Carlisle to Leeds unless the coast still need it. Then does 0849 Leeds to Carlisle and back then back at Leeds detaches and goes to Man Vic possibly 1551

Thanks Adam - though my next lot of working out suggest that diagram might be a 156 now... More research required lol
Anyone any experience of 2F06 the 0704 Goole-Leeds recently? I reckon its now operated with a 150+144 or 150+142? Used to be a 150+153 but I can't see how a 153 ends up at Holbeck overnight

 

[bnsf734]

Not sure about the morning Goole service but I have seen the evening 1716 Leeds Goole service twice recently which was formed of a 150 strengthened by a 153 which comes light from Holbeck (5F25 @1648) and attaches in Leeds station around 1700.

That train runs to Goole and back as 2F30 and arrives in Leeds at 1958. There is a 5F30 ECS to Holbeck at 2012 which will have a 153 on it. I wonder if this train would then do the morning 5F06 0556 Goole ECS next day or possibly the 5F05/2F05 Knottingley service

Looking at RTT Holbeck features in ECS movements for a few of the Goole/Knottingley services so perhaps thats your answer. ECS runs in, detaches 153 which rests on Holbeck until the evening rush?

Good luck with your diagrams. I would love to see a Northern station working book - I am sure such a thing exists.

 

[darloscott]

Not sure about the morning Goole service but I have seen the evening 1716 Leeds Goole service twice recently which was formed of a 150 strengthened by a 153 which comes light from Holbeck (5F25 @1648) and attaches in Leeds station around 1700.

That train runs to Goole and back as 2F30 and arrives in Leeds at 1958. There is a 5F30 ECS to Holbeck at 2012 which will have a 153 on it. I wonder if this train would then do the morning 5F06 0556 Goole ECS next day or possibly the 5F05/2F05 Knottingley service

Looking at RTT Holbeck features in ECS movements for a few of the Goole/Knottingley services so perhaps thats your answer. ECS runs in, detaches 153 which rests on Holbeck until the evening rush?

Good luck with your diagrams. I would love to see a Northern station working book - I am sure such a thing exists.

The 153 off the Goole actually ends up going onto Knottingley services for the evening, while the 150 works the 2030 Sheffield & return, before going to Holbeck. The 153 finishes at Neville Hill on 5T93
5F30 (whilst taking the number off 2F30) departs from platform 15 with the 155 off 2U43 from Victoria I believe.

 

[bnsf734]

^ Yes having checked RTT again I see what you mean.

I foolishly thought 2F30 would do 5F30 - but no 2E23 actually does 5F30.

 

[Adam0984]

Not sure if you've got the answer but the morning Goole is 150 + 153 then goes up to Neville Hill when it gets back to Leeds.
The evening Goole is a 150 which does 06:26 Chesterfield to Leeds then 08/11/14:00 Leeds - Knottingley - Wakefield K - Knottingley - Leeds. The 153 rightly comes in on top of the 150 from Holbeck, which left Leeds at 1027 on 5U05 having done 0651 Leeds Man Vic and 0826 back with a 155 I believe.
Then most of the time the arrival from Goole does 20:05 Knottingley and back and up to Neville Hill. And 20:30 Sheffield and 22:24 back

 

[fishquinn]

Do you mostly get 142s or 156s on the route from Newcastle to Metrocentre or is it a case of the NRDMUG? Hoping it is mostly 156s!

 

[sprinterguy]

Others may disagree but Heaton diagrams in the North East always seem pretty reliable and in terms of individual services have often been largely unchanged for years. Between Newcastle and the Metrocentre, the hourly Newcastle to Carlisle trains are probably around 66% class 156s, the hourly Middlesbrough to Hexham trains are 75% class 142s, and I’m not quite so familiar with the Morpeth to Metrocentre trains but from observation I think that there are probably slightly more 142s than 156s on those services.

For the best chance of a class 156, therefore, aim for one of the Carlisle trains, though off the top of my head the 08:24 and 09:24 departures from Newcastle, and hence the corresponding returns, are 142s (the 09:24 definitely).

 

[fishquinn]

Thanks! They are every quarter of an hour to Metrocentre so if I take a 156 out to Metrocentre. I hopefully won't have to wait long for a 156 back either.

 

[darloscott]

Not sure if you've got the answer but the morning Goole is 150 + 153 then goes up to Neville Hill when it gets back to Leeds.
The evening Goole is a 150 which does 06:26 Chesterfield to Leeds then 08/11/14:00 Leeds - Knottingley - Wakefield K - Knottingley - Leeds. The 153 rightly comes in on top of the 150 from Holbeck, which left Leeds at 1027 on 5U05 having done 0651 Leeds Man Vic and 0826 back with a 155 I believe.
Then most of the time the arrival from Goole does 20:05 Knottingley and back and up to Neville Hill. And 20:30 Sheffield and 22:24 back

Thanks - I knew it used to be 150+153 but wasn't sure whether it still was as I can't see how the 153 finishes at Holbeck on the previous night. The 150 is of course the one that has done that Chesterfield start the previous day.

Do you mostly get 142s or 156s on the route from Newcastle to Metrocentre or is it a case of the NRDMUG? Hoping it is mostly 156s!

Others may disagree but Heaton diagrams in the North East always seem pretty reliable and in terms of individual services have often been largely unchanged for years. Between Newcastle and the Metrocentre, the hourly Newcastle to Carlisle trains are probably around 66% class 156s, the hourly Middlesbrough to Hexham trains are 75% class 142s, and I’m not quite so familiar with the Morpeth to Metrocentre trains but from observation I think that there are probably slightly more 142s than 156s on those services.

For the best chance of a class 156, therefore, aim for one of the Carlisle trains, though off the top of my head the 08:24 and 09:24 departures from Newcastle, and hence the corresponding returns, are 142s (the 09:24 definitely).

156's from Newcastle to Carlisle I have down as:
0824, 1022, 1122*, 1424, 1524*, 1622, 1754, 1824, 1925*, 2118
* - this diagram starts/finishes at Heaton Depot so would be most likely to be substituted for a 142 I guess

 

[Crossover]

I can only speak of this time last year (well, late August) on the morning Goole to Leeds working, when it was a 150/153 all 3 mornings I saw it (I was on a course in Leeds and had some spare time before going to the training centre to grab breakfast and watch some of the comings and goings)

At the time it joined up with a unit that I think had come off Huddersfield Sidings (the one I caught and was a 155) and the whole lot went off to Neville Hill. On one particular day, IIRC, it all got joined with a 158 or something too - pretty sure I have a picture of a 158+155+153+150 all in one long formation!