Northern franchise to end 1 March 2020 with Operator of Last Resort to take over

[Meerkat]

They're old fashioned, uncomfortable, impractical, and expensive all by comparison with the alternatives.

a shirt is old fashioned? Proper shirts are cooler (temperature wise) than polo shirts and shouldn’t be uncomfortable.

The likes of Polo Shirts and Cargo Trousers can still look smart if they are of decent quality and in relatively good repair.

I strongly disagree. Police look like workmen rather than people of authority now.

Customer facing railway staff need to look distinctive, authoritative, and smart - if the staff look slovenly and laid back what impression does that give for how the place is run. It’s not a leisure centre.

 

[dutchflyer]

Does not ARRIVA show its proud ´a DB company´ also-as they seem to do about anywhere else where ARV rides bus/tram/train/whatever?
If that DB mentality works anywhere, they should be very much used and even tied to having to consult staff about any changes, uniforms etc.-one cannot run any bisnis in Germany without doing that. Actually a bit surprised about british working practices I read here (more out of amusement to star with).

 

[Wolfie]

Polos are never smart enough for public facing.
An “official” looking uniform (a jacket and preferably a hat) makes staff clearly visible.

Tell that (about polo shirts) to many police forces! I disagree incidentally.

 

[Mathew S]

a shirt is old fashioned? Proper shirts are cooler (temperature wise) than polo shirts and shouldn’t be uncomfortable.



I strongly disagree. Police look like workmen rather than people of authority now.

Customer facing railway staff need to look distinctive, authoritative, and smart - if the staff look slovenly and laid back what impression does that give for how the place is run. It’s not a leisure centre.

I don't know what kind of shirts you're wearing, but they really aren't cooler than a half-decent polo shirt - in either sense.

As for looking like workmen, that's because the clothing they're wearing is practical and fit for the job they're doing. The overwhelming majority of jobs are not 'formal' in nature - and certainly the railways are not - and so formal clothing simply isn't required, nor is it remotely practical.

 

[C J Snarzell]

Tell that (about polo shirts) to many police forces! I disagree incidentally.

Wolfie

I'm ex-police and I hated the black polo shirts & cycling tops. The quality of them that my force used was appaling. I still believe there is no reason for our British police not to wear a white shirt & tie. There was nothing more annoying for me than turning up at court & feeling poorly turned out wearing cheap clobber and not setting an example to others.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wolfie

I'm ex-police and I hated the black polo shirts & cycling tops. The quality of them that my force used was appaling. I still believe there is no reason for our British police not to wear a white shirt & tie. There was nothing more annoying for me than turning up at court & feeling poorly turned out wearing cheap clobber and not setting an example to others.

Attendance in Court is a rather different situation to a front-line, often fairly physical job. A suit should probably be worn in Court, but that is not a reason for it to be the regular uniform.

For some clients I have to wear a suit if I visit their office. I'm presently working remotely wearing a T-shirt and shorts as nobody can actually see me. Appropriate clothing for each situation.

 

[bengley]

I think police look better in polos - it looks more like tactical gear. I don't see why the police need to look 'smart'.

I am happy with wearing polo shirts as a driver. I find them to be much more comfortable, not to mention not having the seemingly constant issue of having to tuck the shirt in after sitting and standing repeatedly throughout the day. They're also much easier to keep clean than shirts which are inevitably light coloured. My white shirts of the previous uniform looked disgusting after a few months

 

[Robertj21a]

I don't know what kind of shirts you're wearing, but they really aren't cooler than a half-decent polo shirt - in either sense.

As for looking like workmen, that's because the clothing they're wearing is practical and fit for the job they're doing. The overwhelming majority of jobs are not 'formal' in nature - and certainly the railways are not - and so formal clothing simply isn't required, nor is it remotely practical.

Can't agree with virtually any of that. Customer facing staff should look smart, and representative of the company as a whole. A polo shirt often looks poor by comparison.

 

[PG]

I suspect the ''by Arriva'' will simply just be removed or hidden come the 1st March.

The ultra-cheap option would be by Arriva
Anyone got a marker pen

 

[NoMorePacers]

The ultra-cheap option would be by Arriva
Anyone got a marker pen

They’ve done that with the old Serco franchise logos on some safety posters.

 

[Wolfie]

Attendance in Court is a rather different situation to a front-line, often fairly physical job. A suit should probably be worn in Court, but that is not a reason for it to be the regular uniform.

For some clients I have to wear a suit if I visit their office. I'm presently working remotely wearing a T-shirt and shorts as nobody can actually see me. Appropriate clothing for each situation.

Agreed. I hadn't realised that, like the military have, there might not be a smart/formal version of the uniform as well as the normal working gear.

 

[Killingworth]

Saw two men from ISS at our station this morning photographing any notice with the word Arriva anywhere on it. That included a sign only put up last month. That "Arriva" word must go. White tape will probably be all that's needed in most cases - for now.

 

[weastebusdepot]

There is suggestion Northern staff will be issued with some kind of patches to go over the "by Arriva" which is embroidered into the uniform.

As for whether staff get consulted over new uniform designs, East Midlands Railway are currently going through that process, which is why most staff still have EMT branded clothing nearly six months later.

 

[Llama]

As I understand it all logos belonging to previous franchise holders must be removed, even in non-public areas. There are still quite a few left from Serco-Abellio days though.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Saw two men from ISS at our station this morning photographing any notice with the word Arriva anywhere on it. That included a sign only put up last month. That "Arriva" word must go. White tape will probably be all that's needed in most cases - for now.

White stickers/tape was applied to many signs when Arriva took over the franchise. I was at one of the remote Whitby line stations, and resisted the temptation to peel the stickers off. Presumably there will shortly be stickers covering stickers. Very professional.

 

[andrewbowden]

As I understand it all logos belonging to previous franchise holders must be removed, even in non-public areas. There are still quite a few left from Serco-Abellio days though.

There are more old Northern logos on station platforms than new ones, in my experience.

It may be that the DfT and Arriva have come to an agreement and the logo will transfer over to them. I was sure I saw a 323 at the weekend that had the Northern logo on it without 'by Arriva'. Although I have definitely ridden on a repainted 150 that had no logo on it at all.

 

[Andyh82]

There are more old Northern logos on station platforms than new ones, in my experience.

Most station signage has no logo, only new installations has the new logo. If the old serco abellio logo is showing, it probably means that the white sticker has come off.

 

[woodhouse122]

There are more old Northern logos on station platforms than new ones, in my experience.

It may be that the DfT and Arriva have come to an agreement and the logo will transfer over to them. I was sure I saw a 323 at the weekend that had the Northern logo on it without 'by Arriva'. Although I have definitely ridden on a repainted 150 that had no logo on it at all.

158910 came out of the works not long ago with the northern N branding but not with the "by arriva" or the website url

 

[ScottParko]

Many of the DMUs here are in Scotrail livery with the name removed, although I have seen the name inside some.

When I lived alongside the Durham Coast Line I’d often spot them without the name removed from the exterior also!

 

[SteveM70]

As I understand it all logos belonging to previous franchise holders must be removed, even in non-public areas. There are still quite a few left from Serco-Abellio days though.

And therein lies one of the most ridiculous aspects of the franchising system. The incumbent franchisee is required to “debrand” every single sign, poster etc prior to the transfer day, and shortly afterwards the new boys in town go round adding their branding. The inefficiency does my head in, especially with a physically extensive franchise like Northern.

Ideally there’d be no operator branding, but accepting that in the modern world companies like that kind of stuff, surely the sensible approach would a single debrand/rebrand in one go?

 

[andrewbowden]

Most station signage has no logo, only new installations has the new logo. If the old serco abellio logo is showing, it probably means that the white sticker has come off.

It's not stickers coming off. It's stickers never going on in the first place. Whoever did the debranding was a bit slapdash. One station (Hattersley I think) still has the old logo uncovered on all of its platform signs. Plenty of stations have at least one sign that got missed. I saw several not long after the franchise change and they are still there.

 

[vlad]

There are more old Northern logos on station platforms than new ones, in my experience.

I know of one station sign with the new Northern logo, at Heaton Chapel. I'm assuming there must be others....

It does seem to me that the tape that's covered the old logo has been on for so long that it's just disintegrating. There are plenty of places where the logo is visible if you know where to look and there's at least one station (on the Hadfield branch IIRC) where the tape is more-or-less transparent.

 

[jfollows]

I know of one station sign with the new Northern logo, at Heaton Chapel. I'm assuming there must be others....

Thanks to my friend Terry and his colleagues as men plus woman in sheds there are two infinitely better station signs at Heaton Chapel, though. (Unless you're referring to a new black & white Northern logo that is ....) See https://www.heatons-mis.co.uk/2018/12/19/station-sign-opening/ for coverage of the first one, but now there are two.

 

[TUC]

Northern still up to its usual standards this morning. The 0543 Hebden Bridge to Leeds cancelled. If you believe the station information it's the usual 'due to more trains than usual needing to be repaired'. If you believe the code on RTT it's due to the train being swopped for a slower one.

Northern, if it is the former reason re: train repairs, why of all services to cancel, choose one for which there isn't another service for 48 minutes, on a bitterly cold day? As for the latter reason, of a train swop, no one believes that as it is so clearly not a reason for cancelling a service on this line. So Northern, alongside the basics like running train services, how about other basics like exercising some common sense over which services to cancel and being truthful?

 

[SteveM70]

Northern still up to its usual standards this morning. The 0543 Hebden Bridge to Leeds cancelled

I saw that. The first Manchester was cancelled as well, for the same reason, though it’s only 20 minutes wait for the next one.

I suspect that the natural evolution of Northern’s random unit generator is a random cancellation generator

 

[Robertj21a]

Northern still up to its usual standards this morning. The 0543 Hebden Bridge to Leeds cancelled. If you believe the station information it's the usual 'due to more trains than usual needing to be repaired'. If you believe the code on RTT it's due to the train being swopped for a slower one.

Northern, if it is the former reason re: train repairs, why of all services to cancel, choose one for which there isn't another service for 48 minutes, on a bitterly cold day? As for the latter reason, of a train swop, no one believes that as it is so clearly not a reason for cancelling a service on this line. So Northern, alongside the basics like running train services, how about other basics like exercising some common sense over which services to cancel and being truthful?

No doubt there will be a massive improvement once Arriva hand over........

 

[Mathew S]

No doubt there will be a massive improvement once Arriva hand over........

In the short-term (ie. before the May elections) any improvement will be tiny, at best... doesn't take a rocket scientist to see political opponents going, "He argued for nationalisation, and what good has it done? None at all."

 

[mpthomson]

Thing is, in the real world, nobody ever wants to see the word "Northern" again.

That's not the case. Commuters don't care what it's called, just that it arrives and does so vaguely on time.

 

[northernchris]

Northern still up to its usual standards this morning. The 0543 Hebden Bridge to Leeds cancelled. If you believe the station information it's the usual 'due to more trains than usual needing to be repaired'. If you believe the code on RTT it's due to the train being swopped for a slower one.

Northern, if it is the former reason re: train repairs, why of all services to cancel, choose one for which there isn't another service for 48 minutes, on a bitterly cold day? As for the latter reason, of a train swop, no one believes that as it is so clearly not a reason for cancelling a service on this line. So Northern, alongside the basics like running train services, how about other basics like exercising some common sense over which services to cancel and being truthful?

I suspect a unit shortage is the most likely reason. Neville Hill don't have the resources to cover all services since the 142s went. When the timetables changed in December around 4 or 5 diagrams on the Lincoln/Nottingham circuit went to 195s, which in turn cascaded 158s west. Nothing has yet replaced these so looks like this will continue until either more 195s enter service or units are moved from the west

Saw two men from ISS at our station this morning photographing any notice with the word Arriva anywhere on it. That included a sign only put up last month. That "Arriva" word must go. White tape will probably be all that's needed in most cases - for now.

I did see a 150 yesterday which had the 'by Arriva' names taped over

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's not the case. Commuters don't care what it's called, just that it arrives and does so vaguely on time.

If you want an example of that, Southern went from accepted[1] to utterly derided to accepted again.

[1] Commuters will never go higher than "acceptable" in their rating of a train service, however good it actually is.