Northern interviews

[kevin0113]

Hi guys

I just want to say that Nortern's interviews are based on points which you may already know. Gone are the days where internal staff have an advantage anymore. I have been told that if you are a fantastic employee with great attendance, attitude, behaviour and your manager is very happy with your performance, this has no weight anymore. None of that even matters which is a kick in the teeth for any internal applicants to any jobs.

What do you say to that?

 

[SCR]

I say let the best candidate get the job, internal or external. If you are internal yet aren't scoring as high as an external candidate then a mirror may be needed.

 

[CardiffDan]

Thing is you can be an external candidate with great attendance, attitude and behaviour.
Really the internal candidate has a slight advantage of being able to talk directly to those in the job they are applying for.

But just because you are internal doesn't mean you are better than someone who isn't

Im police and see lots of internal candidates go for officer role and turn out terrible.

 

[Neptune]

Hi guys

I just want to say that Nortern's interviews are based on points which you may already know. Gone are the days where internal staff have an advantage anymore. I have been told that if you are a fantastic employee with great attendance, attitude, behaviour and your manager is very happy with your performance, this has no weight anymore. None of that even matters which is a kick in the teeth for any internal applicants to any jobs.

What do you say to that?

Yes it’s now quite rightly based on a totally fair and level playing field so as to not invoke any threat of discrimination against an external candidate.

May I ask which job you have applied for?

 

[Newapplicant]

Thing is you can be an external candidate with great attendance, attitude and behaviour.
Really the internal candidate has a slight advantage of being able to talk directly to those in the job they are applying for.

But just because you are internal doesn't mean you are better than someone who isn't

Im police and see lots of internal candidates go for officer role and turn out terrible.

Absolutely agree with this.

As somebody who also works within the police, we regularly see internal candidates go through for jobs that they believe they can do just because of experience and when they actually start they realise they can't.

At the end of the day the job should be given to the strongest candidate regardless of whether they are internal or external.

 

[skyhigh]

None of that even matters which is a kick in the teeth for any internal applicants to any jobs.

What do you say to that?

Am I right in guessing you're an internal applicant and you don't like it?

 

[scrapy]

Hi guys

I just want to say that Nortern's interviews are based on points which you may already know. Gone are the days where internal staff have an advantage anymore. I have been told that if you are a fantastic employee with great attendance, attitude, behaviour and your manager is very happy with your performance, this has no weight anymore. None of that even matters which is a kick in the teeth for any internal applicants to any jobs.

What do you say to that?

Should points scoring be equal between an internal and external candidate then the internal candidate gets the job so there is a slight advantage of being internal. Otherwise best person gets the job.

 

[Efini92]

Hi guys

I just want to say that Nortern's interviews are based on points which you may already know. Gone are the days where internal staff have an advantage anymore. I have been told that if you are a fantastic employee with great attendance, attitude, behaviour and your manager is very happy with your performance, this has no weight anymore. None of that even matters which is a kick in the teeth for any internal applicants to any jobs.

What do you say to that?

Why should being internal or external factor in? Unless it’s a direct line of promotion.
Northern have promoted some internal staff into the driving grade who have come with a bad attitude and a sense of entitlement.

 

[Neptune]

Why should being internal or external factor in? Unless it’s a direct line of promotion.
Northern have promoted some internal staff into the driving grade who have come with a bad attitude and a sense of entitlement.

Not just within the driving grades. Some people go from Traincrew to management and are so far out of their depth.

 

[kevin0113]

Most of your replies look like you didn't read my post properly hence why I haven't replied.

Should points scoring be equal between an internal and external candidate then the internal candidate gets the job so there is a slight advantage of being internal. Otherwise best person gets the job.

In this case, it was a job that is the next step up from my position. 5 vacancies. 1 internal got it because it was his 4th time applying so they had to accept anyway and the other 4 were outsiders who have never worked it the railway. This is my point really. Even my manager said 'wtf is going on. Why are they favouring outsiders rather than internal staff who know the job and the depot'. It has all been downhill when Northern took over the Neville Hill depot.

Absolutely agree with this.

As somebody who also works within the police, we regularly see internal candidates go through for jobs that they believe they can do just because of experience and when they actually start they realise they can't.

At the end of the day the job should be given to the strongest candidate regardless of whether they are internal or external.

Isn't the stronger candidate the one who knows the job and has been working in the depot for quite a while with great performance and happy manager as opposed to someone who has never worked in the railways?

 

[16.19]

Hi guys

I just want to say that Nortern's interviews are based on points which you may already know. Gone are the days where internal staff have an advantage anymore. I have been told that if you are a fantastic employee with great attendance, attitude, behaviour and your manager is very happy with your performance, this has no weight anymore. None of that even matters which is a kick in the teeth for any internal applicants to any jobs.

What do you say to that?

Id say that if you’re internal and have been offered an interview and fail than that tells more of a story than anything else.

The points system is there for a reason.

Would you consider it to be fair to pass a candidate on the basis that they worked at Northern? What about the other candidates who can pass the interview?

 

[Javelin_55]

Isn't the stronger candidate the one who knows the job and has been working in the depot for quite a while with great performance and happy manager as opposed to someone who has never worked in the railways?

No, not necessarily. External candidates can have great performance and a happy manager too. Anyone can gain experience, but recruitment is quite rightly conducted on the basis of aptitude and skills required to do the job well, rather than just hiring someone who's already been working in the building for a while. A cleaner may have worked in a depot for years, has great performance and a happy manager. That doesn't mean they're the right person to be supervising train movements.

And if you already have all the skills required for the job you applied for, you may need to take a good long look at your application again. Less focus on your attendance and length of service, more on demonstrating non-technical skills and how you hit the person specification dead on. Your responses on this thread suggest you place more weight on the former, which may be the issue.

 

[skyhigh]

1 internal got it because it was his 4th time applying so they had to accept anyway

Why?

 

[Horizon22]

As you said originally, "Northern's interviews are based on points which you may already know. Gone are the days where internal staff have an advantage anymore". And rightly so; just because someone is internal should not guarantee them the next role up if they don't meet the criteria for that role. It is an equal process.

I have been told that if you are a fantastic employee with great attendance, attitude, behaviour and your manager is very happy with your performance, this has no weight anymore.

Of course it will have weight just not in perhaps the way you think; if you can provide evidence of your "great attendance, attitude and behaviour" at an interview, you will be in with a very good chance of succeeding. Many companies also prefer internal candidates as it saves on costs, as long as they are up to scratch.

Your comments come off as a little bitter to be honest. You should ask for feedback, brush up on your application and interview skills, stay focussed at work and do a diligent job and apply what you've learnt for next time.

Isn't the stronger candidate the one who knows the job and has been working in the depot for quite a while with great performance and happy manager as opposed to someone who has never worked in the railways?

Not necessarily. As I've often said (and heard from others) - "Skills and competency can be taught, attitude and personality cannot".

 

[ComUtoR]

Your comments come off as a little bitter to be honest.

Sounds like the correct decision was made. I've seen this recently at my TOC where someone didn't get the job and then all the bitterness in the crew room came out and proved that they wasn't right for the position.

 

[kevin0113]

Why?

It's the railways mate. Nothing makes sense, well on our depot at least.

As you said originally, "Northern's interviews are based on points which you may already know. Gone are the days where internal staff have an advantage anymore". And rightly so; just because someone is internal should not guarantee them the next role up if they don't meet the criteria for that role. It is an equal process.



Of course it will have weight just not in perhaps the way you think; if you can provide evidence of your "great attendance, attitude and behaviour" at an interview, you will be in with a very good chance of succeeding. Many companies also prefer internal candidates as it saves on costs, as long as they are up to scratch.

Your comments come off as a little bitter to be honest. You should ask for feedback, brush up on your application and interview skills, stay focussed at work and do a diligent job and apply what you've learnt for next time.



Not necessarily. As I've often said (and heard from others) - "Skills and competency can be taught, attitude and personality cannot".

I did provide evidence of "great attendance, attitude and behaviour" and all that good stuff but I found out later from someone in HR that it bares no weight anymore. None of it unfortunately. It does come off as bitter because to me it still does not make sense. I did receive feedback and it is the most ridiculous feedback I have read. And bare in mind this was individual feedback. Literally the first and last paragraph contradict each other. I showed it to another senior staff member and they actually said 'eh?'. All this would have been different if EMR still operated my side of the depot but now Northern has taken over, it has all gone to doo doo. That isn't my opinion but everyone else's. Honestly, since Northern took over it really has gone to the gutter.

 

[ComUtoR]

It's the railways mate. Nothing makes sense, well on our depot at least.

Nothing makes sense when looking at it from the crew room or with a recent knockback.

I did provide evidence of "great attendance, attitude and behaviour" and all that good stuff

Which often means nothing. It's generic and everyone can tick those boxes. A good attitude and behaviour might not win you a job but the reverse will often fail to get you one.

it still does not make sense.

Have you considered asking the people who interviewed you ? Written feedback doesn't always paint the whole truth behind the reason.

I did receive feedback and it is the most ridiculous feedback I have read.

Maybe post it so those who may be in a position to help can help decipher it.

All this would have been different if EMR still operated my side of the depot but now Northern has taken over, it has all gone to doo doo. That isn't my opinion but everyone else's. Honestly, since Northern took over it really has gone to the gutter.

I'm pretty glad that old school attitudes are gone. Not specifically Northern but no job should be about "who you know" or giving people advantages if we take some of those old school attitudes; there are some people who wouldn't have even got an interview.

 

[SteveL9]

This way of recruiting people is completely normal and standard practice. Gone are the days where you get a job just because you go to the pub with the same people.

Internal applicants still have a natural advantage, but if they can’t demonstrate they’re the best person for the job at the interview they’ve no one to blame but themselves really.

 

[185]

Northern HR were caught out some time ago. A number of regular applicants were repeatedly being turned down for no reason, so a number of placebo 'test' applications were also submitted, each with (fake) criminal convictions added (a flasher, a poisoner etc) and several strikingly obvious reasons to terminate the application process.
- Four of these were invited to attend their assessment days.

When confronted with these invites, Northern's HR manager flatly denied any wrongdoing.

Don't give up if Northern turn you down. You may find your perfectly good, reasonable application gets you a job with other companies where the HR staff are a little more competent and honest.

 

[ILoveLamp]

Northern HR were caught out some time ago. A number of regular applicants were repeatedly being turned down for no reason, so a number of placebo 'test' applications were also submitted, each with (fake) criminal convictions added (a flasher, a poisoner etc) and several strikingly obvious reasons to terminate the application process.
- Four of these were invited to attend their assessment days.

When confronted with these invites, Northern's HR manager flatly denied any wrongdoing.

Don't give up if Northern turn you down. You may find your perfectly good, reasonable application gets you a job with other companies where the HR staff are a little more competent and honest.

Oops...

 

[gshock]

I work for Northern.. applied for a job to advance at Northern.. and got it.

I am a great attender, haven't been sick, haven't been late. I have have a clean record. Pure. I feel that those attributes served me well.

I have never spoken to anyone in the field that I applied for before applying. They didn't know of me. I was anonymous.

I just kept my head down, put forward my best application, did my homework (severely), wore a brand new suit at the interview, and gave myself the best possible chance.

No complaints.