Northern launch Hull Halifax service

Greetlander

Member
Joined
3 Mar 2018
Messages
111
Location
Sydney, Australia
I'm fascinated to learn of this train, and I'm delighted that Halifax is now a terminating destination. My assumption is that this is mostly about providing an extra Hull - Leeds service, but extending it west to avoid clogging up Leeds platforms. Halifax was chosen because it's a big enough town and close to Bradford that could have been a terminating destination but for capacity constraints?

Is 2 platform Halifax viable as a terminating station, or is it the first stage in a possible station expansion?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

superkev

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2015
Messages
2,244
Location
west yorkshire
I'm fascinated to learn of this train, and I'm delighted that Halifax is now a terminating destination. My assumption is that this is mostly about providing an extra Hull - Leeds service, but extending it west to avoid clogging up Leeds platforms. Halifax was chosen because it's a big enough town and close to Bradford that could have been a terminating destination but for capacity constraints?

Is 2 platform Halifax viable as a terminating station, or is it the first stage in a possible station expansion?
Pity they cant restore the bay at Sowerby bridge and extend from Halifax which would give a connection to the Calder valley. I attach my painting of Sowerby Bridge bay platform for interest in happier days.
Kev
 

Attachments

Greetlander

Member
Joined
3 Mar 2018
Messages
111
Location
Sydney, Australia
Pity they cant restore the bay at Sowerby bridge and extend from Halifax which would give a connection to the Calder valley. I attach my painting of Sowerby Bridge bay platform for interest in happier days.
Kev
Great painting. Sowerby Bridge is another of those faded stations that probably deserves better.
 

J.C.

Member
Joined
15 Jul 2019
Messages
11
They use the turnback siding just outside the station
They didn't when I caught it. It arrived into the Manchester bound platform and departed straight back out towards Bradford.
It was running late, and made up most of the late running by doing so.
 

Banfurlong

Member
Joined
28 Sep 2019
Messages
11
Location
Wigan
Back in my childhood days of inventing weird and wonderful train services, my favourite was a Hull - Holyhead boat train via Halifax.
I remember that service very well, my father used to say, he relieved Yorkshire drivers at Manchester Victoria bound for Holyhead class 40 days
 

Peter Bonner

Member
Joined
7 Nov 2019
Messages
167
Location
BEVERLEY
They didn't when I caught it. It arrived into the Manchester bound platform and departed straight back out towards Bradford.
It was running late, and made up most of the late running by doing so.
The trouble with this Hull to Halifax service is that if it is running late there is a good chance of it being turned around at Bradford instead of Halifax.
Potentially it is very useful service to passengers in East Yorks and Hull who can use it to avoid TPE services. Im told there are some good Northern ticket deals too tho not tried to look for them yet. It has just got to be reliable to be a success,and that applies to all Northern services!
 

Staffordian

Member
Joined
11 Jul 2019
Messages
111
The trouble with this Hull to Halifax service is that if it is running late there is a good chance of it being turned around at Bradford instead of Halifax.
Potentially it is very useful service to passengers in East Yorks and Hull who can use it to avoid TPE services. Im told there are some good Northern ticket deals too tho not tried to look for them yet. It has just got to be reliable to be a success,and that applies to all Northern services!
My impression is that this service has been fairly reliable to date - although obviously subject to curtailment at Bradford if running late. Today for instance, all arrivals at Halifax apart from the 0714 (0547 ex Selby) have arrived within 5 mins of time, and most within 2 mins.
Regarding fares, the Anytime Return Northern only Hull-Leeds fare is £22.50, while unrestricted fares are £30.50 Peak Return and Off-Peak is £25.70. Both operators offer much cheaper advance singles - Northern £6.50 and TPE £7.90.
The Northern service particularly comes into its own when TPE is disrupted - for instance last Thursday (09 Jan) when a points/signal failure at Deighton caused the TPE service to fall apart with a gap of at least 3 hours between TPE departures between Leeds and Hull in both directions.
 

Old Yard Dog

Member
Joined
21 Aug 2011
Messages
1,027
I think there was a lot of political pressure from Leeds councillors to restore cross-city links between places like Garforth and stations to the west like New Pudsey and Bradford.

Its quite ironic that while direct Northern Connect services from Bradford to Sheffield, Nottingham, Manchester Airport and Liverpool have yet to materialize, Bradford has gained through workings to Hull, albeit only slow stopping trains.
 

Peter Bonner

Member
Joined
7 Nov 2019
Messages
167
Location
BEVERLEY
I think there was a lot of political pressure from Leeds councillors to restore cross-city links between places like Garforth and stations to the west like New Pudsey and Bradford

Its quite ironic that while direct Northern Connect services from Bradford to Sheffield, Nottingham, Manchester Airport and Liverpool have yet to materialize, Bradford has gained through workings to Hull, albeit only slow stopping trains.
Interestingly Hull to Bradford and Halifax doesnt get the Northern Connect label. Why ever not? It links two big conurbations in Yorkshire that havent been connected for decades. Uses 170s too-good quality units. The route needs publicising more.
 

Staffordian

Member
Joined
11 Jul 2019
Messages
111
Interestingly Hull to Bradford and Halifax doesnt get the Northern Connect label. Why ever not? It links two big conurbations in Yorkshire that havent been connected for decades. Uses 170s too-good quality units. The route needs publicising more.
Presumably because it serves all stations between Selby and Bradford - whilst Northern Connect is supposed to provide be more of an ‘express’. However, having said that, the NRES website shows that the Northern service always provides a faster journey between Hull and Bradford than changing to/from TPE, as the connectional time at Leeds is greater than the 14 minute time penalty of the extra stops.
 

Peter Bonner

Member
Joined
7 Nov 2019
Messages
167
Location
BEVERLEY
Presumably because it serves all stations between Selby and Bradford - whilst Northern Connect is supposed to provide be more of an ‘express’. However, having said that, the NRES website shows that the Northern service always provides a faster journey between Hull and Bradford than changing to/from TPE, as the connectional time at Leeds is greater than the 14 minute time penalty of the extra stops.
Thanks for that info re: journey times from Bradford to Hull. Of course if you were tempted to use TPE from Hull to Leeds or return the 14 min cd easily become 60+14 and possibly more!
 

Staffordian

Member
Joined
11 Jul 2019
Messages
111
Thanks for that info re: journey times from Bradford to Hull. Of course if you were tempted to use TPE from Hull to Leeds or return the 14 min cd easily become 60+14 and possibly more!
Having said that, if you were prepared to break the 10-minute NRES minimum connection rule at Leeds, there are faster options changing to/from TPE there with generally a 9-min connection w/b and 7 min e/b between platforms 16 and 10/11/12. This is probably enough if you are fleet of foot, unencumbered by luggage, know where you are going and the incoming train is on time !
 

Class195

Member
Joined
28 Nov 2019
Messages
222
Location
Bradford
I think there was a lot of political pressure from Leeds councillors to restore cross-city links between places like Garforth and stations to the west like New Pudsey and Bradford.

Its quite ironic that while direct Northern Connect services from Bradford to Sheffield, Nottingham, Manchester Airport and Liverpool have yet to materialize, Bradford has gained through workings to Hull, albeit only slow stopping trains.
The direct Northern train is quicker than changing at Leeds for TPE.
 

trawler

Member
Joined
3 Nov 2010
Messages
33
This was a relatively simple service to create extending the existing Selby to Leeds stopper which had a sizable lay-over at Selby to Hull. It is fair to say that there was considerable pressure to improve frequency and resilience between Hull and Leeds which just the one hourly TPE service. I was part of that lobby along with Hull City Council and Hull & Humber Chamber of Commerce.
 

Staffordian

Member
Joined
11 Jul 2019
Messages
111
Yesterday (3rd Feb) was a further occasion when this service came into its own to cover for TP services cancelled or terminated short at Leeds due to the signalling problems at Cross Gates.
TP departures from Leeds to Hull at 1734, 1934 and 2134 were cancelled as was the 1808 ex Hull.
In contrast all Northern services between Hull and Leeds ran, even though some were very late and the 1615 ex Hull was terminated at Bradford Interchange 54 mins late, departing back to Hull only 16 late.
The ability to turn services at Bradford clearly helps make the service fairly self-contained, unlike TP where delays tend to propagate across the network.
On these occasions do frustrated TP passengers cry “Thank heavens for Northern Rail ! “ - or would that be a step too far ?
 

Peter Bonner

Member
Joined
7 Nov 2019
Messages
167
Location
BEVERLEY
Yes starting Leeds. Due to a problem with the train according to RTT
Was on 1630 Bradford to Hull tonight. Formed of 158793. Massively crowded after Leeds and had lost 9mins by South Milford. About 6mins late into Hull. Good load emptied there too. Guess its the cheaper Northern only tickets doing the business?
 

Staffordian

Member
Joined
11 Jul 2019
Messages
111
Was on 1630 Bradford to Hull tonight. Formed of 158793. Massively crowded after Leeds and had lost 9mins by South Milford. About 6mins late into Hull. Good load emptied there too. Guess its the cheaper Northern only tickets doing the business?
Interesting - sounds as though passengers at Garforth, etc. will be finding their commuter journeys much more crowded than when they ran to/from Selby.
Were there many other passengers travelling across Leeds or did the service empty out there ? As restoring a cross-Leeds link was a prime reason for the service, it would be good if people are making good use of the facility.
 

Jamesrob637

Established Member
Joined
12 Aug 2016
Messages
1,841
Glad I didn't change in Halifax - 09:17 Halifax to Hull started in Leeds at 09:54 and was a 158 which smacked of the late-90s! However it was comfortable and the run in nice weather was superb. Hoping for similar on the 14:15 back to Leeds.
 

Peter Bonner

Member
Joined
7 Nov 2019
Messages
167
Location
BEVERLEY
Interesting - sounds as though passengers at Garforth, etc. will be finding their commuter journeys much more crowded than when they ran to/from Selby.
Were there many other passengers travelling across Leeds or did the service empty out there ? As restoring a cross-Leeds link was a prime reason for the service, it would be good if people are making good use of the facility.
Hi. As far as I cd see there quite a number of cross Leeds passengers. Just very difficult for people to get off post Leeds and hence the delays.
 

Deerfold

Established Member
Joined
26 Nov 2009
Messages
10,414
Location
Yorkshire
This was a relatively simple service to create extending the existing Selby to Leeds stopper which had a sizable lay-over at Selby to Hull.
It wasn't quite that simple. The Selby to Leeds stopper and the Leeds to Huddersfield via Halifax have become a Selby to Halifax and a Bradford to Huddersfield. This means one extra tph between Bradford and Halifax, but no extra route miles beyond that. The Bradford to Huddersfield service is commonly a single carriage, leaving Bradford 3 minutes behind the previous service.
 

mm333

Member
Joined
28 Aug 2008
Messages
407
This was very useful last night travelling from Bradford-Sowerby Bridge. Instead of getting the 1803 direct which would have been jammed with Calder valley commuters, I got the fairly empty 1751 to Halifax only, then picked up the Sowerby Bridge train at Halifax when all the Halifaxians has disembarked.
 

Top