Northern line TBTC/ATO

[D365]

I thought the acceleration cap was mainly due to poor(er?) track conditions in the tunnels? I'm not really too sure! Presumably all that's been (being?) sorted out so that the maximum capacity enhancement can be had from ATO - until such a time where the line can be fully split.

 

[Class377/5]

It seemed to be playing up all day; there were some quite long service gaps ( one of them up to 15 minutes! ) in the afternoon followed by a bunch of trains at one minute intervals - the shuttle was unaffected at that time though.

There were also instances at more than one station of trains pulling away and then stopping again a few feet along.

Yeah I'm seeing that a lot. Also the ride quality heading north from Highgate is appalling with the ATO being extremely jerky as it adjusts to the desired speed. From a passenger point of view is not pleasant and I'm surprised its been allowed in service.

 

[n4dave]

For anyone interested NAM3 should start in passenger service Sunday 22nd Sept .. Saturday 21st the system is live but trains are running in that area empty and if succesful then its all go for Sunday.
NMA3 area is Chalk Farm - Euston CHX Branch / Angel and Highgate - Euston CHX Branch / Angel
On The High Barmet Branch the TBTC area still operates through to High Barnet / Mill Hill East from Highgate

 

[Class377/5]

For anyone interested NAM3 should start in passenger service Sunday 22nd Sept .. Saturday 21st the system is live but trains are running in that area empty and if succesful then its all go for Sunday.
NMA3 area is Chalk Farm - Euston CHX Branch / Angel and Highgate - Euston CHX Branch / Angel
On The High Barmet Branch the TBTC area still operates through to High Barnet / Mill Hill East from Highgate

There is no closures this weekend. Are these empty trains in addition then?

 

[greatkingrat]

The closures are next weekend (21st/22nd), not this weekend.

 

[Class377/5]

The closures are next weekend (21st/22nd), not this weekend.

Ah its me getting my dates confused.

 

[starrymarkb]

Yeah I'm seeing that a lot. Also the ride quality heading north from Highgate is appalling with the ATO being extremely jerky as it adjusts to the desired speed. From a passenger point of view is not pleasant and I'm surprised its been allowed in service.

I did notice how jerky it was, seems to have options of full power or no power?

 

[n4dave]

NMA3 update

So Saturday 21st Sunday 22nd we saw NAM3 go live but trains running empty in the new area only.
The whole weekend was a great success with only a few trains out of the 100's running having a problem with the system.
BUT Monday 23rd we had to got back to tripcock signals ( normal colour light signals ) for that area this was due to late signing of papers otherwise it would of gone live Sunday for normal passenger service which was a great shame as again it was a great success.

 

[Class377/5]

I did notice how jerky it was, seems to have options of full power or no power?

Yeah it does to seem to need to have some fine tuning.

 

[Nym]

I did notice how jerky it was, seems to have options of full power or no power?

Well programmed in Stockport, it's the same kind of issue on the Jubilee Line...

 

[starrymarkb]

It was going Full -> Coast -> Full -> Coast - spending about 1 second in each state

 

[Nym]

It was going Full -> Coast -> Full -> Coast - spending about 1 second in each state

Considering it has a Alstom Onyx traction controllers only using two of the states isn't exactly an efficent use.

I always did wonder if TBTC (S40) would have difficulty speaking to Onyx, especially being retrofitted.

 

[simple simon]

wont the constant on off harm the motors? I've seen this said as happening to the Central Line's trains!

Simon

 

[Nym]

wont the constant on off harm the motors? I've seen this said as happening to the Central Line's trains!

Simon

Different type of motors and different problem on 1992TS under ATO.

1992TS under ATO is continuous motoring or generating / plugging that wears the bushes down very quickly on the DC motors, all other LUL DC Stock has PCMs so has a large amount of coasting (and are better motors).

1995TS has a 3 phase AC motor, the only 'on-off' damage is mechanical to the motor shaft but electrical demands are unlikely to cause any of this kind of damage as the on/off isn't at the motor, it's at the head end of the motor controller, the controller will gently re-introduce the power, in phase with the right slip angle whenever it is applied in order to prevent damage.

So in short, no.

 

[oversteer]

Noticed at Euston southbound (bank branch) the signals have been covered up, is this related to this?

 

[Manchester77]

Noticed at Euston southbound (bank branch) the signals have been covered up, is this related to this?

Yes according to district dave its now active up to Angel:

Highgate – Euston (charing cross) and Angel was the plan I saw in another thread. I took a ride this morning and the train absolutely flew along from camden to Angel, ride seemed a bit smoother than it has been from Highgate to Finchley Central too. I guess they are gradually fixing the gremlins.

http://districtdave.proboards.com/thread/21481/northern-line-tbtc?page=8

 

[Class377/5]

It seemed to be playing up all day; there were some quite long service gaps ( one of them up to 15 minutes! ) in the afternoon followed by a bunch of trains at one minute intervals - the shuttle was unaffected at that time though.

There were also instances at more than one station of trains pulling away and then stopping again a few feet along.

I had that today. 6min gap at Finchley Central then before one arrives in platform I could see three arriving right behind each other. Still not right as it was jerky north of Finchley Central.

 

[n4dave]

Noticed at Euston southbound (bank branch) the signals have been covered up, is this related to this?

Yes .. at the moment the following is running in automatic so no need for signals ( they are too expenisve to actually remove to guess they will be left covered up )
so .. High Barnet to Angel / Euston (CHX)
and Chalk Farm to Angel / Euston (CHX)

Mid January will hopefully see NMA4 introduced which is from Oval northbound to High Barnet / Chalk Farm

 

[essex_commuter]

Just out of interest...why does the Edgware branch need to be closed so often for testing of the new signals. Is it being used as a test area, or is there something a lot more complicated about that branch?

 

[Class377/5]

Just out of interest...why does the Edgware branch need to be closed so often for testing of the new signals. Is it being used as a test area, or is there something a lot more complicated about that branch?

Test track was at Highgate Depot on the High Barnet branch that was used to treat the Jubilee trains prior to the Northern Line work.

High Barnet branch was closed just as much as the Edgware is being now as I used to live on it for the closures.

 

[andos]

Yeah I don't think the Edgware branch is being closed any more than the High Barnet branch, but I know they are leaving Belsize Park to Edgware until last for ATO. Apparently the area around Golders Green is causing the system a lot of problems probably due to the depot!

I remember the MHE Junction and siding at Finchley Central caused a lot of problems when that went live, my tube journeys were quite painful for a few weeks...

 

[Class377/5]

Yeah I don't think the Edgware branch is being closed any more than the High Barnet branch, but I know they are leaving Belsize Park to Edgware until last for ATO. Apparently the area around Golders Green is causing the system a lot of problems probably due to the depot!

I remember the MHE Junction and siding at Finchley Central caused a lot of problems when that went live, my tube journeys were quite painful for a few weeks...

Didnt it just. Finchley Central was my home station during the works there. Seeing the northbound trains between platform and first Bridge south was target common even during off peak.

 

[n4dave]

Yeah I don't think the Edgware branch is being closed any more than the High Barnet branch, but I know they are leaving Belsize Park to Edgware until last for ATO. Apparently the area around Golders Green is causing the system a lot of problems probably due to the depot!

I remember the MHE Junction and siding at Finchley Central caused a lot of problems when that went live, my tube journeys were quite painful for a few weeks...

The Golders Green area is very complicated , as you know there is a depot and sidings , also a middle platform that can allow north and southbound trains.
There are over 40 different moves that a train can make in the Golders area.

You could see 4 trains moving at the same time at Golders ( north / south , train into the middle platform , train into depot ) so this makes the area rather complicated.

 

[Class377/5]

Is not that much more complex than say Finchley Central with three platforms with bi di working siding in the middle of running lines either side, four running lines north and two to three south.

 

[Biggus Tiggus]

The next phase of TBTC (NMA 4) is due to be commissioned over the weekend of 18th/19th January.

This will extend the TBTC are to cover High Barnet/Mill Hill East/Chalk Farm - Oval via both the City and West End branches, also road 33 in High Barnet sidings, and platforms 2/3 at East Finchley to the transition area at Highgate sidings.

 

[andos]

Seems like NMA4 (Belsize Park / High Barnet through to Oval on both branches) went live yesterday. It was a pleasant surprise for the weekend long works to be called off!

 

[Dstock7080]

Seems like NMA4 (Belsize Park / High Barnet through to Oval on both branches) went live yesterday. It was a pleasant surprise for the weekend long works to be called off!

Indeed, from 1800 yesterday.

 

[n4dave]

NMA Update

We have had testing in NMA5 from Morden towards Stockwell ( to reverse in ATO of course ) last weekend which worked very well.
We expect it to go live around 22nd or 23rd March and the final section NMA6 which means the whole Northern line is ATO as early as April/May

 

[CyrusWuff]

NMA5 is being commissioned for revenue service this weekend, which will just leave Chalk Farm as a boundary in terms of passenger trains.

 

[100andthirty]

NMA5 is being commissioned for revenue service this weekend, which will just leave Chalk Farm as a boundary in terms of passenger trains.

NMA5 was commissioned overnight and went into service mid afternoon today.