Northern on train displays

[53703]

Again, the problem for this lies with Northern. If you go into the cab you will find a sheet stuck to the bulkhead with destination codes, These codes are destination codes only and will not activate the PIS system.
The PIS system or FX codes were sent to guards mobiles and are stored there, also some booklets were issued out. So let me explain the problem
Scolling through your mobile to find the codes can literally take ten minutes. There is that many of them. Think of all the services and stopping patterns, there lies the problem. It needed radical thought, but radical thought is not Northern.s strongpoint.
I do agree though that something has to be done, because it is yet another failure.

Surely the easy fix would be to put the code of the duty card with times, etc that guards carry round with them??

 

[CC 72100]

Surely the easy fix would be to put the code of the duty card with times, etc that guards carry round with them??

On other TOCs this is exactly how it is, the PIS code is next to the headcode as the train appears on the schedule card.

 

[sportzbar]

Surely the easy fix would be to put the code of the duty card with times, etc that guards carry round with them??

I believe a guard at one depot did begin doing this for the relevant routes that his depot served and it works for them. However unless someone at each depot is prepared to do this then it'll be difficult to impliment by the planning department as those guys have enought on their plates getting the diagrams right in the first place, not to mention the amount of STP jobs some depots have. Don't get me wrong, it's a great idea, just an added complication at the moment. I personally have it as an edited pdf file on my phone showing all my relevant routes and it is still 25+pages long....

 

[ryan125hst]

Is it just me that finds the dot matrix screens that Northern use on their refurbished units, both internally and externally, very flickery. I can't recall noticing it on the dot matrix screens on the platform even though they both use LED's.

Also, considering the reason that this screens are fitted is to assist persons with reduced mobility (PRM), why do the new screens seem smaller and more difficult to read than the destination blinds they replace?

One final thought, why have Northern got two different types of passenger information system? Travelling to uni between Retford and Sheffield, most Class 158's that have a PIS fitted has got the dot matrix type. However, there's a video of a three coach set that has a colour screen, as does the refurbished Class 144 Evolution. That being said, I'm not a fan of those screens (that are also being used on EMT and GWR's Class 158's), as I don't feel they display the information particularly well. The ones on the new Class 700's, however (which, I think, are made by the same company) are far better. Are they too big to be fitted to 158's or is the cost of these screen that was the deciding factor here?

As an example, how information is displayed on the screen in this GWR Class 158:

To how it is displayed in a Class 700:

Mind you, the dot matrix screens don't do much better as they seem to have forgotten to add punctuation:

:
"This train is for Liverpool Lime Street the next stop is Liverpool Lime Street" is shown on the screen - and the same issue occurs on the Lincoln-Sheffield route so it must be how they are programmed network wide.

 

[sportzbar]

The one you will have seen of the 158 is one of the first refurbished sets. Should all be like this eventually.

 

[js1000]

I was on a refurbished Northern 150 last night and was blinded by the fluorescent lights with no covers. Why on earth are they so bright? And those automated announcements are annoying too!

I just find the entire Northern refurbishment programme a bewildering mess to be honest. It's cost engineered down to the bare minimum rather than an attempt at ensuring continuity across the fleet. Some have new seats with. Others don't. Some have new panels. Others don't.

I don't know if the plan is to update the trains they have done to date to a presentable standard as part of a Phase 1 works with a further Phase 2 refurbishment in a few years once new rolling stock has arrived. That's the impression I got from reading an article on the first fully refurbished on the Class 158 recently.

 

[ACBest]

The TrainFX displays are just as bad on EMT. All the way between Lincoln and Nottingham, it’ll tell you that you can change for trains to London at every single station!

 

[ryan125hst]

The one you will have seen of the 158 is one of the first refurbished sets. Should all be like this eventually.

Yes, it seems that they're adding the LED type PIS to them first and then refurbishing them to Northern Connect standard. Not sure what's happening to the ones with the colour screen though, although they are only fitted to the three cars and they don't use them on the Lincoln-Sheffield.

I just find the entire Northern refurbishment programme a bewildering mess to be honest. It's cost engineered down to the bare minimum rather than an attempt at ensuring continuity across the fleet. Some have new seats with. Others don't. Some have new panels. Others don't.

I don't know if the plan is to update the trains they have done to date to a presentable standard as part of a Phase 1 works with a further Phase 2 refurbishment in a few years once new rolling stock has arrived. That's the impression I got from reading an article on the first fully refurbished on the Class 158 recently.

I agree, as mentioned above the 8 three car Class 158's have been refurbished, but they retain there original seats and have a colour passenger information system, as can be seen here:

However, the actual finished refurbished Class 158 is as shown in this image:
https://www.railadvent.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/MDE-158845-new-interior.jpg

So will the three car 158's go back and be refurbished to that standard and have the PIS screen replaced as part of it?

The TrainFX displays are just as bad on EMT. All the way between Lincoln and Nottingham, it’ll tell you that you can change for trains to London at every single station!

Do they announce the stations correctly at each stop?

 

[ACBest]

Do they announce the stations correctly at each stop?

It’s manual announcements by guards.

 

[josh-j]

Ryan, you're right - the new dot matrix displays are incredibly flickery for some reason. Though I find the lack of punctuation more irritating!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ryan, you're right - the new dot matrix displays are incredibly flickery for some reason. Though I find the lack of punctuation more irritating!

Cheap rubbish that pulses the LEDs at 50Hz to dim them.

Shouldn't be surprised, it is Northern. Mind you, the Class 800 displays have the same problem, caused by being similarly cheap and nasty.

 

[_toommm_]

The 319s are still referencing the Lime Street works dated May to June 2019.

Also,the inconsistent punctuation and capitalisation is incredibly annoying

 

[johntea]

I was on a Leeds to Knaresborough train this morning which took several resets to start announcing the correct route, then after Horsforth it proudly boasted the next stop would be Hornbeam Park! So by Pannal it thought we had arrived at Harrogate, which confused several users!

 

[TUC]

Some do. But you can't please everyone can you. I have had people moan about them announcing stations when I have set it up correctly.

Why wouuld someone moan about a station being announced?

 

[td97]

Why wouuld someone moan about a station being announced?

Had a 153 + refurb 150 combo today. Was sat in the 153 section (enjoying the compromise of 2+2 but no legroom) and the auto announcements were working on the whole formation. Unfortunately, the announcements were so loud as to overpower conversations and came through with a horrible crackly tone.
In comparison, the guard made a manual announcement when stopped at a red signal which was clear, articulate and at the right volume.

 

[mde]

Cheap rubbish that pulses the LEDs at 50Hz to dim them.

ScotRail have the same awful screens on their refurb units… ironically the stock that has transferred to Northern had the old displays which don't have the same 'feature'.

Installing these awful screens is a bit of a joke really - the customers who are actually reliant on them will no doubt experience difficulty in reading the text, therefore, what was the point?

 

[jayah]

I believe a guard at one depot did begin doing this for the relevant routes that his depot served and it works for them. However unless someone at each depot is prepared to do this then it'll be difficult to impliment by the planning department as those guys have enought on their plates getting the diagrams right in the first place, not to mention the amount of STP jobs some depots have. Don't get me wrong, it's a great idea, just an added complication at the moment. I personally have it as an edited pdf file on my phone showing all my relevant routes and it is still 25+pages long....

I would be surprised if there wasn't a franchise requirement around both fitting this kit and actually using it. A few complaints in the right ears followed by some enforcement action would focus minds.

 

[jayah]

I just find the entire Northern refurbishment programme a bewildering mess to be honest. It's cost engineered down to the bare minimum rather than an attempt at ensuring continuity across the fleet. Some have new seats with. Others don't. Some have new panels. Others don't.

I don't know if the plan is to update the trains they have done to date to a presentable standard as part of a Phase 1 works with a further Phase 2 refurbishment in a few years once new rolling stock has arrived. That's the impression I got from reading an article on the first fully refurbished on the Class 158 recently.

I find the idea of buying or refurbishing anything bewildering when there is clearly no intent to even clean them once released into the wild. Do exotic concepts such as daily cleaning and periodic deep cleaning exist in that franchise?

 

[djgary]

I had a pacer on the Atherton line the other day, with automated announcements which could have woken the dead!

The auto announcement will have been generated from an attached 15x.
Northern has briefed crews Not to use the auto announcements on services formed of stock that includes a 142, if it is used the announcement is incredibly loud in the pacer as you found out.

 

[plymothian]

To put it mildly, TrainFX is not fit for purpose.
Unless set up at a terminus, with the doors armed, on a 15x or later (exlcuding a 153), it won't sync with GPS, nor ever be broadcast at a reasonable audio level on non compatible stock.

 

[ACBest]

I think part of the problem too is that TOC’s are disinterested in really using TrainFX to its full potential. There’s so much it could do, and so many features that nobody seems to have bothered playing around with - and let’s be honest, even what we have now isn’t really presented in a smart or impressive way.

 

[johntea]

Not on train but at Keighley station on the departure information display

“This service has 3 carriages”

But then a twist!

“This service has a drinks trolley service on board”

Sadly Father Jack didn’t come down the train...guessing since it was the service to Leeds originating from Carlisle they were referring to the friends of the line tea trolley but it seems odd to be still announcing that for a 22:20 Leeds bound service at Keighley considering they probably got off before Skipton if they were even providing the service so late to begin with!

 

[trainmananthon]

Not on train but at Keighley station on the departure information display

“This service has 3 carriages”

But then a twist!

“This service has a drinks trolley service on board”

Sadly Father Jack didn’t come down the train...guessing since it was the service to Leeds originating from Carlisle they were referring to the friends of the line tea trolley but it seems odd to be still announcing that for a 22:20 Leeds bound service at Keighley considering they probably got off before Skipton if they were even providing the service so late to begin with!

They do this for all Settle Carlisle services on the Airedale line.

We have been in contact numerous times with Northern to have this stopped but it would seem to no avail.

 

[johntea]

On board a service today which was warning passengers of the RMT strikes...in May 2018

 

[DanTrain]

On board a service today which was warning passengers of the RMT strikes...in May 2018

The only time I’ve known these boards/Pis display anything useful was when they were announcing the wrong calling pattern...almost had half the trains getting off before we’d even got going!

 

[Parallel]

It is literally a requirement, unfortunately.

Not all trains with PIS do, however!

 

[PR1Berske]

I'm currently watching "This train is for Airport (MAN)" on a loop on the 1209 from Preston.

 

[geoffk]

An interesting message I've seen approaching Rochdale is "change here for Metrolink service 5 to Rochdale Town Centre, Manchester Central Zone and East Didsbury". I think that's the wording. Good that Metrolink connections are being shown BUT "service 5" would mean nothing even to a local rail/tram user, while showing Manchester and East Didsbury is a bit pointless if the train is heading for Manchester and even more so if it's going to Leeds! Showing the connection for Rochdale Town Centre and Oldham would be an improvement. Anyone else seen this?

 

[johntea]

It seems some poor bloke from the Northern office pulled the short straw and has had to record a few new announcements!

So you now get the robotic woman "We will shortly be arriving at..." followed immediately by the human recorded "Thank you for travelling with Northern today" and other such generic announcement - at first I thought it was the guard speaking but nope definitely new recordings!

 

[xfield]

They're missing an opportunity to create the sound of the North. Just like New York has...