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Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Andy Pacer, 11 Jul 2018.
The luggage racks...?
That looks familiar... Not many people car reach them though. The ex Thameslink 319s have handles extending down from the luggage racks which is very useful.
If you’re tall enough you can try to brace yourself against the ceiling
I'm fine standing in the middle until we brake sharply and human dominoes ensues...
When the new timetable with a massive shakeup of services happened last spring, Class 158s were taken off the Leeds-Brighouse-Manchester Vic services at the time it was extended to Southport. Prior to this, 158s formed the majority of diagrams on this route. Since then 142s, 150s and more recently 156s have been used.
Were 158s taken off as Wigan crews don't sign them? I believe that the Southport line is cleared for them, as I travelled on a WYPTE example to Southport around 2004.
I thought that the WYPTE examples were operated by Arriva Trains Northern back in 2004? I didn't know they operated to Southport. Thought that was First North Western territory?
I think that's the year FNW and ATN merged to become Northern, so it's not beyond the realms of possibility if the right people had route and traction knowledge.
This thread clearly states about Pacer Withdrawals but no pacers have been withdrawn yet but only discussing and showing pictures of 150s and discussing other dmus. There are other threads for these questions and pictures. Until the first Pacer is withdrawn the thread should be silent. Does anyone have any dates or Withdrawals times yet. I reckon may timetable will be the start of the first rumbling beasts.
So when will the Pacers go? Clearly not in May
Hopefully touch wood sometime this year and start to stand down in the summer. The stack of dmus that northern have received should of at least replaced some of them but clearly have not. Almost nearly 49 dmus have arrived which is just short of replacing half of the 101 Pacer fleet. What's happened? Only northern giving excuses about the mistakes they made. Clearly half the fleet could be replaced now this very moment.
I thought the Pacers were the rumbling beasts...? Or am I just getting it all wrong...
What arrived has or is being sent away to be PRM modded.
It's hardly the pride of other TOC's fleet arriving. Some are in need of heavy work before any of the PRM stuff happens.
That may be true but some are out and about which is helping to replace Pacers, see my post here; https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/northern-unit-refurbishments.128846/page-154#post-3840522
In recent weeks both those routes have seen Pacers rostered. From what I've seen many of the cascaded units are in better condition than Northern's unrefurbished stock. Which doesn't disagree with a lot of work needing to be done on all of them, but some a lot more than others!
I doubt all Pacers will be withdrawn officially until the last possible minute, but they'll increasingly be kept in reserve and any with defects will be cannibalised as necessary to keep the others going.
As Killingworth notes above, a number of the additional units have entered service, and before any PRM work was carried out: Notably the ex-GWR class 150s, and also to a lesser extent the ex-Scotrail class 170s.
Though certainly not to the extent that half the Pacer fleet could be replaced, with PRM mods being undertaken on both the 'native' and received fleets concurrently, and a difficult autumn leaf fall period for the Northern fleet.
My gut feel over the last week or two is that short-forming has reduced somewhat. That the peak diagrams that are not 170s are getting multiple units; I'm talking about the Harrogate line, so there are a fair number of 170s.
There are definite signs of more 4-carriage services. Still with plenty of pacers in the mix.
Until today, when I was met with my first 5-carriage service! All pacer, of course, but wow.
I get the impression that, in this neck of the woods anyway, that Northern have finally, finally, got enough carriages to run most services with the right capacity. That they should now be getting rid of them makes me shudder
Was this the 1709 Leeds - Knaresborough? If so it is booked 2 car 144+3 car 144 now. There is still a lot of short forming on the Calder Valley, quite often the 153 is missing leaving a solo 150/156/158 but things aren't as bad as a few weeks ago!
I will be astonished if they go before the end of the year.
The replacement trains are no nearer to being ready, the training on said vehicles hasn't started yet and has hit another snag.
A full fleet of 14x will be in for leaf fall, I have no doubt about it. May 20 is my prediction at the earliest for pacer removal.
5-car Pacer ey...? Was the 690-horse 144 coupled to a 460-horse 144 or a 142...?
Is there any confirmed date for when the Pacers will start to be withdrawn? Am sure it should have started in October 2018 but none have so far gone, I did hear a Couple of blokes at Warrington Bank Quay the other day claiming to have inside information saying they will start to come off at the May TT Change but we all know what Platform gossip is like.
It's largely dependent of when the replacement stock arrives (and staff training is finished). You have to wait for the 769s, 195s and 331s before you can get rid of the old stock. If those dates keep slipping, the Pacer withdrawal date will have to slip too. (The delay in making the 769s, for example, is well-known.)
Has TFW or GWR withdrawn any of their pacers yet? Heading that way next week.
Is there a thread on here for their withdrawal?
TfW won't be withdrawing any Pacers until 31/12/2019. If anything they may temporarily take on more Pacers up until the end of the year, as they are desperate for any Northern withdraw to boost capacity whilst TfW's 150s are away for PRM mods. Stand on Platform 6 at Cardiff Central and you'll never be more than 5 or 10 minutes away from being able to catch a 142 or 143 up the Valleys.
One of the TFW Pacers (142079?) was Withdrawn not long ago due to Chassis damage, Northern have said on Twitter when the new Trains enter Service the Pacers will start to come off, so if the new Trains do indeed enter service at the May TT Change that would fit in with what i heard.
142073 was withdrawn in mid-July 2018 due to some sort of structural defect as you state (142079 is a Heaton based Northern unit). Other than that, all of the TFW and GWR Pacers remain in service, and specifically regarding TFW won't be going anywhere soon.
142073 should now be back in service for TfW as they repaired it. That's how short TfW are.
I thought I'd heard that it had recently been repaired, but I wasn't certain. Thanks for the confirmation.
Short forming is still going on on the Southport line at least. I agree it doesn’t seem to be as bad in the last couple of weeks though. A couple of really scruffy Scotrail (?) 156s with very dodgy seats have appeared so they must be providing some extra capacity. Nice to see us getting the best of the cascaded stock in Lancs
We are still seeing 142s daily though, sometimes as a double set. I don’t see how they can go in May without the return of chronic short forming.
It was indeed. I'm not normally early enough to catch/see this service, but I do normally see that diagram while it is on its return route to Leeds later ... and I'm sure I've never seen anything that long. Does it leave part of it behind in Harrogate for overnight stabling?
The 2-car had the large white plastic seat-backs (Richmond?) that I can't fit my legs into ... if that distinguishes it!
Yeah, I still think the NorthWest side is getting the worst of the deal at the moment.
The reported cascade from Heaton will probably be welcomed!
It was mentioned above that it was a double (Quintuple; if you count it by carriage) 144 formation.
Where did he say that the 2-car unit was also a 144...?
Admittedly, with the Northern random unit generator, what's booked isn't necessarily what turns up, so I have made a bit of an assumption!