Northern Pacer Withdrawals - Info?

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Andy Pacer, 11 Jul 2018.

  1. 175001

    175001 Member

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    The current STP DMU diagram on the Chat Moss is no more from Monday

    319 back on it
     
  2. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    7x195s, 2x331s is it not?
    Northern have been pretty clear the total is 9.
     
  3. scrapy

    scrapy Established Member

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    That's correct. It should however be noted that the 7 diagrams in the North West in particular are subject to crew availability as not all crews have been trained on the new units. These are being looked at a few days before once rosters are done and older units may be substituted. 7 is a maximum.
     
  4. sprinterguy

    sprinterguy Established Member

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    Ah, thanks for that, that clarifies things. Thought I could recall that 150207 was involved, wasn't sure if there were others.
     
  5. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    Very good point.

    Assuming that Northern do manage to get crews trained on the new units rapidly enough for them to be introduced at a decent pace, would it not make sense to use these new trains to displace Sprinters that need to go away for modifications/refurbishment, rather than taking out Pacers? So long as there is works capacity to do it, increasing the number of Sprinters being refubished at any one time should logically allow the whole fleet to get done sooner, and so allow Pacers to be displaced by the refurbished units?
     
  6. cactustwirly

    cactustwirly Established Member

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    That would be an insane amount of money and time wasted.
    All train introductions are phased, when the GWR HSTs were replaced, a few HST sets went off lease, when a new set of diagrams went over to 800s.
     
  7. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    Back to the topic at hand, I see the first pacer withdrawal happening sometime in August, providing everything goes well.
     
  8. darloscott

    darloscott Member

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    Where do Northern store all these extra units if we keep all these extras in service? I could see them pushing some more off for refurb but in otherwise finding space to store all these extra 80+ units will be a struggle....
     
  9. Xenophon PCDGS

    Xenophon PCDGS Veteran Member

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    How many could Newton Heath have space to store these days?
     
  10. Mathew S

    Mathew S Established Member

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    I mean, I think it's a daft idea on cost grounds if nothing else, but if you really, really, really wanted to keep all the Pacers until every single new/refurbished train was in service, you could use places like Long Martson, and so on. It's a daft idea, but not actually impossible.
     
  11. Buspilot

    Buspilot Member

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    Isn't there some room at Guide Bridge?
     
  12. Xenophon PCDGS

    Xenophon PCDGS Veteran Member

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    I mentioned Newton Heath earlier as it was an enclosed rail unit depot with a good number of stabling lines, but not being a regular visitor to the Guide Bridge area, do you mean those lines either side of the main running lines after the junction past the station there where I remember large ballast storage areas?
     
  13. Buspilot

    Buspilot Member

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    Correct. The sidings to the right of the main line, going towards Stalybridge, are unused these days I think.
     
  14. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    Given the state of some of the ballast wagons that are (or were) on the opposite side of the running lines, it doesn't strike me as an ideal place to store any stock with a use beyond being turned into razor-blades. Not only were many wagons heavily graffitoed, but I recall several had had their unloading hatches opened. Those that were left partly loaded were left stuck as a result.
     
  15. thenorthern

    thenorthern Established Member

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    There was something in the news about the Pacers being withdrawn by the end of 2020 I think I read which I think means the pacers won't be withdrawn on time.
     
  16. Bertie the bus

    Bertie the bus Established Member

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    It’s not quite that simple. I’ve lost track, and interest, in what new services Northern were supposed to be introducing and which ones have been delayed and which are likely to not happen at all, but York – Scarborough and Middlesbrough – Newcastle certainly look to be happening. There may be others? So, it isn’t just new stock replacing old stock, Northern will require additional units to support the new services. Therefore, it could be more like 50 new units replacing 102 Pacers.
     
  17. Cambrian359

    Cambrian359 Member

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    It was The bbc news article that stated end of 2020, could be a mistake or they could have let slip something
     
  18. mrcaa

    mrcaa Member

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    I’m pretty sure I heard the guy from Northern not answering this question on the North West Tonight piece. He certainly seemed to imply from his squirming that there will still be plenty of Pacers in service next year.
     
  19. SC43090

    SC43090 Member

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    Correct 2x 331s diagrams for Doncaster Leeds Doncaster services from Monday 1st July 2019......

    SC 43090
     
  20. Killingworth

    Killingworth Established Member

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    In Northern's position they could give two answers, "categorically no Pacers under any circumstances", or "maybe a few Pacers might have to be kept if we are to meet all customer aspirations, with suitable dispensation from the DfT". It seems they said neither.

    The first would give a hostage to fortune, no matter how well things may seem to be going. Too many uncertain factors might come into play, some known but others unpredictable The second would throw the ball back to the DfT. Would we want more short formed trains, new routes delayed, greater frequencies deferred or a few retained Pacers?

    I'd be aiming to provide the first, but preparing for the second. I'd not want to actually say either but would have some sacrificial Pacers targetted to go by the end of August. By October I'd be a lot more certain of what can realistically be promised.
     
  21. driver_m

    driver_m Established Member

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    Would be quite ironic if they initially store them in the South East given the amount of times people ask of any have been seen in London’s Commuterland. Is there anywhere down there to dump them? Food for thought. ;);)
     
  22. Karl

    Karl Member

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    I think they meant the end of 2019, or the beginning of 2020? PRM regulations don't allow the Pacers next year.
     
  23. EIKN

    EIKN On Moderation

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    Hi guys hope your all enjoying the sun. Does anyone have a more concrete idea of what class will replace the Scunthorpe Doncaster pacers , we've been hearing class 170 ( 2 car) or 2 car 158;, as the Hull via good 158 is getting replaced with the newer trains .
    Or is there any substance in the rumour EMT. May operate these services , as they are to Barrow upon Humber . At least they don't have Pacers or to my knowledge 150's
     
  24. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    If we assume a logical cascade, those services which predominantly see Pacers today will see the most basic stock which will be 150s. These are planned for Penistone line services which is pretty solid Pacer territory at present. There may be some local variations down to traction knowledge and specific restrictions (no 150s for Durham Coast for example) but generally speaking Pacers will be replaced directly by Sprinters.
     
  25. alangla

    alangla Member

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    The last time they dumped Pacers it was at Blackpool, is there still space there after the rebuild? Also, is that temporary stabling site in Leyland still there? Personally I think the best place is probably Booth’s though
     
  26. thejuggler

    thejuggler Member

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  27. Meerkat

    Meerkat Member

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    Surely if Pacers were really Museum pieces as Burnham claims then people would be queuing up to get on them (and leaning off platforms to take selfies obvs)?
     
  28. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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  29. Ken H

    Ken H Established Member

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    Saw a 3 car 144 at Settle Jct yesterday on (I think) 2Y01 1432 Morecambe = Leeds.
     
  30. fowler9

    fowler9 Established Member

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    Some things belong in a museum without people wanting their photo taken next to them. I'm sure you can think of a few.
     

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