Northern Pacer Withdrawals - Info?

[anamyd]

Just to be clear, which Pacers have been withdrawn as of the 14th of August...?

142005

which others...?

 

[ed1971]

Just to be clear, which Pacers have been withdrawn as of the 14th of August...?

142005

which others...?

As 142046 has re-appeared in service, I would not be surprised if in a few days 142005 re-appears in GMPTE orange livery!

 

[GoneSouth]

Northern will be getting permission to continue using the 144 fleet without modification into the new year, it was in the news recently - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-48816961

This was a bbc Manchester story with Andy Burnham chipping in as usual. My question is, have the 144s ever worked around Greater Manchester? I’ve only ever seen them in the Sheffield & Leeds areas and I seem to recall they were bought by WY Metro, is that correct? If all true, nothing to do with the GM Mayor! He is not the self appointed mayor of the whole of the north of England like he thinks he is!

 

[bramling]

This was a bbc Manchester story with Andy Burnham chipping in as usual. My question is, have the 144s ever worked around Greater Manchester? I’ve only ever seen them in the Sheffield & Leeds areas and I seem to recall they were bought by WY Metro, is that correct? If all true, nothing to do with the GM Mayor! He is not the self appointed mayor of the whole of the north of England like he thinks he is!

They have certainly reached Manchester Vic via the Calder Valley route. Not sure if they still do, booked or otherwise.

 

[ed1971]

This was a bbc Manchester story with Andy Burnham chipping in as usual. My question is, have the 144s ever worked around Greater Manchester? I’ve only ever seen them in the Sheffield & Leeds areas and I seem to recall they were bought by WY Metro, is that correct? If all true, nothing to do with the GM Mayor! He is not the self appointed mayor of the whole of the north of England like he thinks he is!

Yes, from around 2008 to the start of the 2014 summer timetable, 3 car Class 144s were regularly used on the Manchester Vic to Leeds via Brighouse service. Manchester Vic crews used to sign them. They also work on Leeds to Lancaster/Morecambe services.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Yes, from around 2008 to the start of the 2014 summer timetable, 3 car Class 144s were regularly used on the Manchester Vic to Leeds via Brighouse service. Manchester Vic crews used to sign them. They also work on Leeds to Lancaster/Morecambe services.

One even made it to Piccadilly in Northern Spirit days, subbing for a 158.

 

[ed1971]

One even made it to Piccadilly in Northern Spirit days, subbing for a 158.

I read that sometime in 1996 a surviving Class 141 also made it to Piccadilly in place of a 158!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I read that sometime in 1996 a surviving Class 141 also made it to Piccadilly in place of a 158!

Those unfortunate passengers have probably just about recovered from the hearing damage caused going through Standedge by now!

 

[LOL The Irony]

Those unfortunate passengers have probably just about recovered from the hearing damage caused going through Standedge by now!

That suggests they recovered.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

That suggests they recovered.

Is my prognosis too optimistic?

 

[superkev]

Yes, from around 2008 to the start of the 2014 summer timetable, 3 car Class 144s were regularly used on the Manchester Vic to Leeds via Brighouse service. Manchester Vic crews used to sign them. They also work on Leeds to Lancaster/Morecambe services.

I think 144s dont visit Manchester anymore as the fitters where unfamiliar if there was a problem at Vic. I dont think Manchester crews sign them any more either.
I always thought the 3 car 144s where the best of the Pacers and where quite well suited to the fairly straight all welded Calder Valley via brighouse service. Quite quick off the mark too.
K

 

[chrissawer]

I would not be surprised if in a few days 142005 re-appears in GMPTE orange livery!

142005 has been sat for the last few days at the back of Newton Heath Depot with the "I'm retiring today" livery clearly visible from trains going past on the Calder Valley line.

Will be interesting to see when it moves, and to where.

 

[ed1971]

I think 144s dont visit Manchester anymore as the fitters where unfamiliar if there was a problem at Vic. I dont think Manchester crews sign them any more either.
I always thought the 3 car 144s where the best of the Pacers and where quite well suited to the fairly straight all welded Calder Valley via brighouse service. Quite quick off the mark too.
K

I have not seen any 144s at Manchester post start of the summer 2014 timetable. Class 142s have continued to appear on both Manchester Vic to Leeds via Brighouse as well as via Bradford Interchange however. As you say, 3 car 144s were well suited to the route than 142s.

 

[Llama]

It's five years since I last brought a 144 over, that was 144023 as a two car set which was put on the diagram specially so it could later be reunited with its middle car at Newton Heath (after repairs to fire damage). No Victoria drivers have 144s on their traction cards these days.

They do very occasionally make it to Manchester, more likely on Sundays than other days - all except one Calder Valley trains to/from Victoria on Sundays are Leeds crew throughout. Still only very occasional to see one though and only on a diagram which has a straightforward turnaround at Victoria with the same crew out from Leeds and back again.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I have not seen any 144s at Manchester post start of the summer 2014 timetable. Class 142s have continued to appear on both Manchester Vic to Leeds via Brighouse as well as via Bradford Interchange however. As you say, 3 car 144s were well suited to the route than 142s.

They could in theory still work into Victoria, but only if a Yorkshire crew will bring it in and out again... therefore they're even more unlikely via Brighouse as the majority of those services run beyond Victoria to Wigan or Southport.

 

[Mogster]

I’ve been commuting on the Southport line for 25 years, I’ve never seen a 144.

 

[geoffk]

They have certainly reached Manchester Vic via the Calder Valley route. Not sure if they still do, booked or otherwise.

Not seen a 144 in Manchester for several years now. They were regulars on the service via Brighouse for some time. They do appear on the Leeds - Bradford - Huddersfield service, which uses part of the Calder Valley line.

 

[ed1971]

142005 has been sat for the last few days at the back of Newton Heath Depot with the "I'm retiring today" livery clearly visible from trains going past on the Calder Valley line.

Will be interesting to see when it moves, and to where.

I think that we can now safely assume that 142005 is condemned. Are there any more 142s currently stored out of service at Newton Heath?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I’ve been commuting on the Southport line for 25 years, I’ve never seen a 144.

You won't have, as they've only run beyond (west of) Victoria on rare occasions if at all. No West side crews operate them any more so they're only likely to get to Manchester on Sundays, even then it's quite rare.

 

[ed1971]

Not seen a 144 in Manchester for several years now. They were regulars on the service via Brighouse for some time. They do appear on the Leeds - Bradford - Huddersfield service, which uses part of the Calder Valley line.

Around 3 weeks ago I saw 144012 on that service.

 

[Killingworth]

I understand a contingency reserve of warm stored Pacers may be held to cover autumn wheel flats.

Whatever, 142056 was hard at work today with a selection of the challenges it's had to deal with for over 30 years, including heavy luggage, bike, dog and rucksacks. Here at all but hidden Sheffield Platform 2C out at the open south end.

 

[anamyd]

I understand a contingency reserve of warm stored Pacers may be held to cover autumn wheel flats.

Whatever, 142056 was hard at work today with a selection of the challenges it's had to deal with for over 30 years, View attachment 67261 including heavy luggage, bike, dog and rucksacks. Here at all but hidden Sheffield Platform 2C out at the open south end.

...and loaaads of people.

All those things present no risk, whatever

 

[ed1971]

I understand a contingency reserve of warm stored Pacers may be held to cover autumn wheel flats.

Whatever, 142056 was hard at work today with a selection of the challenges it's had to deal with for over 30 years, View attachment 67261 including heavy luggage, bike, dog and rucksacks. Here at all but hidden Sheffield Platform 2C out at the open south end.

Where had 142056 arrived from?

 

[Killingworth]

Where had 142056 arrived from?

Piccadilly.

 

[anamyd]

Just to be clear, which Pacers have been withdrawn as of the 14th of August...?

142005

which others...?

can we get some sort of proper list going...?

 

[Jamesrob637]

142005/142016/142021/142022/142025/142046/142066 were the ones earmarked for withdrawal this week. Now to discover how many actually went in reality and if any others went also/took their place.

 

[Howardh]

My train into Manchester yesterday was a pacer. The old bus seats, the donkey wobble of course, but warm, nippy (apart from the congestion outside Deansgate) airy, pleasant.

Personally I'd rebuild them, put electric motors in and run them from the overheads!!

Anyhow - a question; my pacer was being pulled by a different DMU. Can an electric unit pull a pacer; in other words, can it connect up all the brakes and what-not? If so, has it ever been done - even if it's just an emergency?

And finally, wish a few could be preserved to run shuttle trains such as Windermere/Oxenholme!!

 

[ed1971]

My train into Manchester yesterday was a pacer. The old bus seats, the donkey wobble of course, but warm, nippy (apart from the congestion outside Deansgate) airy, pleasant.

Personally I'd rebuild them, put electric motors in and run them from the overheads!!

Anyhow - a question; my pacer was being pulled by a different DMU. Can an electric unit pull a pacer; in other words, can it connect up all the brakes and what-not? If so, has it ever been done - even if it's just an emergency?

And finally, wish a few could be preserved to run shuttle trains such as Windermere/Oxenholme!!

As a general rule, EMUs and DMUs cannot work coupled together in service. All Pacer classes 142/143/144 can work together and in multiple with Class 15x Sprinter units. From what others have said, the Class 142s now have bodies in poor condition and probably would have needed a rebody to have stayed in service for much longer.

 

[Bantamzen]

This was a bbc Manchester story with Andy Burnham chipping in as usual. My question is, have the 144s ever worked around Greater Manchester? I’ve only ever seen them in the Sheffield & Leeds areas and I seem to recall they were bought by WY Metro, is that correct? If all true, nothing to do with the GM Mayor! He is not the self appointed mayor of the whole of the north of England like he thinks he is!

Got to love Andy Burnham, anything for a bit of free publicity......

I have a guilty secret though. News of the first 142 retirement actually made me feel a bit sad. Yes they were a cheap solution that worked way beyond their designed lifespan and purpose, and yes they often gave interesting rides. But they did help save an awful lot of routes that were in serious decline & well and truly neglected by previous governments. I suspect had they not stepped in, much of the network around the North and other places would have slowly died to only fractions of the service they see today. And those little Leyland National (still one of my favourite buses) inspired workhorses have busted their guts to keep going all these years, through all the routes they have worked could throw at them.

Lamented they may be, but they have proved invaluable over the years. I echo the sentiments above in hoping that a least a couple get preserved because they do represent an important part of British railway history. I just hope none end up like their predecessors rusting away on a siding thousands of miles from where they were conceived.

 

[ed1971]

Got to love Andy Burnham, anything for a bit of free publicity......

I have a guilty secret though. News of the first 142 retirement actually made me feel a bit sad. Yes they were a cheap solution that worked way beyond their designed lifespan and purpose, and yes they often gave interesting rides. But they did help save an awful lot of routes that were in serious decline & well and truly neglected by previous governments. I suspect had they not stepped in, much of the network around the North and other places would have slowly died to only fractions of the service they see today. And those little Leyland National (still one of my favourite buses) inspired workhorses have busted their guts to keep going all these years, through all the routes they have worked could throw at them.

Lamented they may be, but they have proved invaluable over the years. I echo the sentiments above in hoping that a least a couple get preserved because they do represent an important part of British railway history. I just hope none end up like their predecessors rusting away on a siding thousands of miles from where they were conceived.

The Leyland National bus when introduced was reputed to be the safest bus on the road. One of the prototypes was driven into a big lump of concrete to prove the point. The model had good suspension and was only let down by BLMC's insistence to use the smoky 510 'headless wonder' engine which had already been rejected by the haulage industry. Some operators got round it by fitting Volvo, DAF or Gardner engines in their Nationals and many had long lives. In the end, Leyland saw sense and offered a 680, L11, TL11 or Gardner engine in the National 2.

In view of the fact that the 142 body is based on the National and there are numerous Nationals in preservation, some of the body panels and fittings from scraped 142s may be useful to any Leyland National preservationists.