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NOrthern rail ATN 142s

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fischh69

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Understand all ex ATN 142s now refurbished with new lighting side panels flooring and upholstery... Presumably replacement head rests sourced as man were missing

Work is ongoing with the 156s... Ay pics of a refurbished ex arriva 156? The ex FNW units were done to a high standard
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I also understand the shabby ex alphaline 158s were being refurbished
 
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Adam0984

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At the moment everything is just been 'polished' upto a reasonable standard before the full 'as new' referb between now and 2019
 

47802

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At the moment everything is just been 'polished' upto a reasonable standard before the full 'as new' referb between now and 2019

Well of course there wont be much done to the Railbuses now since there gone to be binned, I was on a 144 yesterday and reminded me what a piece of junk they are and long overdue for the bin.

As for the 'as new' refurb I wouldn't get too carried away with that, looks like a glorified good clean, lick of paint and new seat covers and flooring, plus Wi-Fi and new Toilets for the disability regs.
 
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61653 HTAFC

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Those 142s (and it was MTL-owned Northern Spirit which commissioned the work, NOT Arriva after they rescued MTL) were "refreshed" about 2 years ago, it isn't new work! I agree on the headrests though, they were very flimsy when first fitted. Those units are probably the least-worst Pacers these days (144012 being a rather elusive beast away from Sheffield).
 

northwichcat

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Strangely old Northern thought they should remove the armrest between the seats as part of the refresh, while some of the overhead luggage racks were removed as well.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As for the 'as new' refurb I wouldn't get too carried away with that, looks like a glorified good clean, lick of paint and new seat covers and flooring, plus Wi-Fi and new Toilets for the disability regs.

These are the requirements:

Northern franchise agreement said:
36.1 The Franchisee shall, as proposed in its response to the Invitation to Tender, refurbish the interiors of 64 Class 333 vehicles, 162 Class 150 vehicles, 14 Class 155 vehicles, 114 Class 158 vehicles, 48 Class 170 vehicles, 128 Class 319 vehicles and 94 Class 156 vehicles to the following specification:
(a) recovering of all seats and the replacement of all seat cushions;
(b) new floor coverings throughout;
(c) repainting of all interior panels;
(d) powder coating of all grab poles and rails;
(e) a clean compliant with the "Deep Clean Specification";
(f) full exterior repaint (it being agreed that with regard to those Class 319s units repainted into the current Northern operator’s livery in 2015 or 2016 re-painting of those units shall be completed by 31 March 2023);
(g) fitting of Wi-Fi compliant with at least the Minimum Wi-Fi Service Requirements;
(h) fitting of at least one PRM compliant toilet with baby-change facility per multiple unit;
(i) fitting of LED lighting, with lighting intensity complying with EN 13272 ‘Railway Applications – Electrical Lighting for Rolling Stock in Public Transport Systems’;
(j) fitting of a passenger information system compliant with the Passenger Information System Specification;
(k) fitting of CCTV compliant with the Internal CCTV Specification;
(l) fitted with a driver advisory system to advise the driver on the most economical method of driving consistent with good timekeeping;
(m) fitted with forward facing CCTV;
(n) fitted to be “ERTMS-ready” so that when ETCS equipment needs to be installed in accordance with the Network Rail programme it can be done without needing intrusive works including because necessary wiring is in place and space for the equipment has been kept free as part of the refurbishment works.

36.2 In addition to the works specified in paragraph 36.1:
(a) 16 Class 333 units shall have two vehicles modified in a “metro style” configuration (32 vehicles in total) to increase passenger carrying capacity per unit by at least 19%;
(b) all Class 158 units will be refurbished to a standard that meets the "Rolling Stock Quality Requirements" and be fitted with remote condition monitoring equipment;
(c) 24 class 150 two car units will be reformed into 16 three car units with the toilet removed from each centre car; and
(d) each Class 319 and Class 333 unit shall be fitted with pantograph monitoring CCTV.

“Rolling Stock Quality Requirements” means each of the following requirements:
(a) air conditioning and heating systems that are designed to operate effectively and reliably within the range of ambient temperatures normally experienced in the north of England throughout the year;
(b) fixed or folding tables at a minimum of 90% of seats;
(c) power sockets or USB charging points with a minimum of one socket provided for every two seats;
(d) adequate space for luggage which takes account of the fact that the Northern Connect Passenger Services shall be operated to and from airports and other significant tourist venues;
(e) toilet facilities (including, baby-change facilities and toilets which are Controlled Emission Toilets);
(f) full compliance with the accessibility requirements in the Railways (Interoperability) Regulations 2011 notwithstanding that compliance is not required by law until 1 January 2020; and
(g) electronic seat reservation systems;

“Deep Clean Specification” means a clean to the highest standard reasonably obtainable of both the interior and exterior of relevant rolling stock vehicles including a clean of the interior of all toilet cubicles, all upholstery, floor coverings, windows, ceilings, walls, body sides and other visible surfaces;

I think the interesting points are that all 158s will be refurbished to 'Northern Connect' standard, not just the ones allocated to Northern Connect services plus requirement for the 3 car 150s to not have a toilet in the middle car - the most sensible place for a toilet on a 3 car set!

From the seating numbers before and after refurbishment most trains will lose seats but the 158s will gain a few seats.
 

61653 HTAFC

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I think the interesting points are that all 158s will be refurbished to 'Northern Connect' standard, not just the ones allocated to Northern Connect services plus requirement for the 3 car 150s to not have a toilet in the middle car - the most sensible place for a toilet on a 3 car set!

From the seating numbers before and after refurbishment most trains will lose seats but the 158s will gain a few seats.

The 150 thing may be because the way the hybrid units are formed at the moment (with the exception of the ones using the two DMS vehicles that lost their partners) means that every other set gains a toilet, but the others don't. Removing those toilets means each unit will be pretty much the same. Of course what then happens if the /2s are reformed as 2-car sets is anyone's guess!
 

yorksrob

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The 150 thing may be because the way the hybrid units are formed at the moment (with the exception of the ones using the two DMS vehicles that lost their partners) means that every other set gains a toilet, but the others don't. Removing those toilets means each unit will be pretty much the same. Of course what then happens if the /2s are reformed as 2-car sets is anyone's guess!

Seems rather counter-productive. I imagine 2 toilets could be very useful in a 3 carriage 150, even if only for half of them.
 

northwichcat

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Seems rather counter-productive. I imagine 2 toilets could be very useful in a 3 carriage 150, even if only for half of them.

The existing toilets can't be retained. All train toilets must be retention by 2020 and even a second non-wheelchair accessible toilet must have door/toilet/sink buttons/controls which can easily be used by people with disabilities.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The ex FNW units were done to a high standard

Eventually. Initially they got a repaint and new purple seat covers, so there were very worn out green & blue carpets alongside purple seats!
 

61653 HTAFC

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The existing toilets can't be retained. All train toilets must be retention by 2020 and even a second non-wheelchair accessible toilet must have door/toilet/sink buttons/controls which can easily be used by people with disabilities.

Didn't realise that, though it does make sense in a way- that said, the implications for stock such as Mk3 coaches is significant and will likely push up the cost of making them compliant.
 

bramling

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The 150 thing may be because the way the hybrid units are formed at the moment (with the exception of the ones using the two DMS vehicles that lost their partners) means that every other set gains a toilet, but the others don't. Removing those toilets means each unit will be pretty much the same. Of course what then happens if the /2s are reformed as 2-car sets is anyone's guess!

It would make more sense, *if* some vehicles currently fitted with a toilet were to have them removed completely, for the toilet vehicles to go in the middle of the train, rather than in the end vehicles on a 3-car train.
 

yorksrob

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The existing toilets can't be retained. All train toilets must be retention by 2020 and even a second non-wheelchair accessible toilet must have door/toilet/sink buttons/controls which can easily be used by people with disabilities.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Eventually. Initially they got a repaint and new purple seat covers, so there were very worn out green & blue carpets alongside purple seats!

They've done the 158's, so it must be possible to slap a tank on the bottom in a similar fashion.

You only need one toilet per unit to be the all singing, all dancing disabled friendly affair.
 

northwichcat

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You only need one toilet per unit to be the all singing, all dancing disabled friendly affair.

The second one needs to be similar to the standard of the second one on trains like Desiros e.g. if there's a push button it must illuminate and have braille. One thing that needs to be remembered when saying about accessibility is it's easy to ensure a wheelchair is loaded on to a certain section but people with other disabilities could board through any door. That's why a 142 without CIS attached to a 150 with CIS won't be permitted - a deaf passenger might board the 142 and the rail staff may not realise a deaf person has boarded the 142.
 

yorksrob

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The second one needs to be similar to the standard of the second one on trains like Desiros e.g. if there's a push button it must illuminate and have braille. One thing that needs to be remembered when saying about accessibility is it's easy to ensure a wheelchair is loaded on to a certain section but people with other disabilities could board through any door. That's why a 142 without CIS attached to a 150 with CIS won't be permitted - a deaf passenger might board the 142 and the rail staff may not realise a deaf person has boarded the 142.

But with the 150, the passenger will be able to board from anywhere in the unit and still have access to the disabled loo.
 

northwichcat

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But with the 150, the passenger will be able to board from anywhere in the unit and still have access to the disabled loo.

How do you inform a blind/partially sighted passenger that the toilet they are entering is not suitable for them to use and there is an alternative facility further down the train? A braille notice on the door? An automated announcement when the door is opened?
 

yorksrob

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How do you inform a blind/partially sighted passenger that the toilet they are entering is not suitable for them to use and there is an alternative facility further down the train? A braille notice on the door? An automated announcement when the door is opened?

And how does that person find the toilet in the first place ?

Other than that a braille notice would be relatively simple.
 

northwichcat

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And how does that person find the toilet in the first place ?

They might be told/guided by another passenger (who might not be aware there's 2 toilets.) In the event of it being a person with some but limited sight they might be able to find the toilet easily enough but not able to read any captions or notices which can be found within the toilet.

There is a blind rail user who posts on here so he might be able to give more information if he visits this thread.
 
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