Northern Rail Newcastle - Glasgow

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When did this begin and what is the point in it?

Nobody is going to use it Newcastle - Glasgow with EC/XC infinitely faster. Nobody is going to use it Carlisle - Glasgow with VT/TPE inifinitely faster and for all stops between Carlisle and Glasgow surely it's infringing on Scotrail territory?

I never knew this service ran until I was looking into a return to Dumfries from Glasgow, I use Glasgow Central High Level twice per day for my commute and have never noticed Northern Trains, I once saw a Northern 158 at a silly time at GC but assumed it was just lost/not meant to be there/an accident.

So yeah, when was this introduced and why?
 
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island

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I don't know. But perhaps in NFM12 we'll see bargain Route NORTHERN ONLY fares on the flows.
 

hairyhandedfool

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They have been running for years!

It is actually a set of joint Northern/Scotrail services. It is crewed by Scotrail from Glasgow to Carlisle and Northern from Carlisle to Newcastle, often run using Scotrail 156s, but when they fail or are unavailable, something else is used.
 

reb0118

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I've used it - but not throughout in one go. Many people use it from South West Scotland use it to get to Newcastle. It's also useful for people travelling from Dumfries & Annan to Haltwhistle & Hexham. (I suppose two teenage tearaways from Tyneside could elope to Gretna Green aswell?)

It's a lovely scenic route on both sides of the Border.

Thanks for posting I may take a trip to Corbridge on Thursday now.

(Trains starting in Scotland are classed as ScotRail throughout & those starting in England as Northern throughout. This causes a wee problem with my staff pass & friends & family tickets as we can travel down to Englandshire but not back up)
 
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So is it usually a Scotrail 156 rather then a Northern one? That would explain why I've only ever seen a Northern in Central once. One thing I did notice was that the Northern ones take a lot less time than the Scotrail ones between Dumfries and Glasgow.

I normally make this trip once or twice per year for football reasons and it's always been a Scotrail 156, I only notices it was listed as Northern when I checked NRE rather than Scotrail site to see why it took less time.

Just seems like an odd route to me.

Just to be sure the 'March Madness' half price online fares will be valid on this service on the return Dumfries to Glasgow leg despite it being listed as Northern?
 

cuccir

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Yes in my experience its almost always a Scotrail train.

They also offer an express service between Newcastle and Carlisle - they're the fastest option for that route. I guess that by then running them through it might financially justify the existence of this faster express service.
 

tbtc

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So is it usually a Scotrail 156 rather then a Northern one? That would explain why I've only ever seen a Northern in Central once
Just seems like an odd route to me
IIRC there's a FSR unit on the Newcastle stretch when there's a Northern 156 on the Glasgow stretch (since the 156s essentially swap over at Carlisle, with each continuing on rather than reversing back to where they came from).

This is the kind of route that was commonplace under BR, before splitting up routes between different TOCs made such services too complicated.

I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't last until the end of the decade, though there is some value in giving south western Scotland (Dumfries etc) a direct link to the Metro Centre and Newcastle.
 

PaulLothian

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I think you may find that even end-to-end journey times are quite competitive and are much quicker if travelling between the Tyne Valley and anywhere that connects into the southern Strathclyde network. Lack of changes is also appealing to many, particularly if avoiding the inter-station transfer in Glasgow.

Glasgow to Newcastle via Carlisle is about 20-30 miles shorter than via Edinburgh, depending on the route.
 

flymo

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I've used it throughout before on a Newcastle - Glasgow return. Out via Edinburgh to QS, return on the direct train from Glasgow C. Thoroughly good trip it was too.
 

142094

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It used to provide a link with Stranraer for the ferry, until it was removed a few years back. Now it is Dumfries and Glasgow only from Newcastle. From another forum it turns out that some Northern crews also work the service to Dumfries and back, although the normal changeover is at Carlisle. It is also normally a Scotrail 156 but there have been occasions where they've used a Northern unit to cover.

Doesn't really matter if no-one uses it for the full length - it provides two services in one (NCL - CAR and GLC - CAR)
 

flymo

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When did this begin
Well it's certainly been running since at least 1998 as looking at that timetable there was a Mon - Sat 0600 Sunderland (0635 ex Newcastle) - Glasgow C arr 1041. Return working was at 1548 ex Glasgow C to Newcastle arr 1948.

Also to anyone interested, back then there were two services Newcastle - Stranraer, returns were one Stranraer - Newcastle and a morning Girvan - Newcastle. All Mon - Sat only.
 

Eagle

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Glasgow to Newcastle via Carlisle is about 20-30 miles shorter than via Edinburgh, depending on the route.
Nope. Newcastle to Glasgow via Carlisle and Dumfries is a few miles longer than via Edinburgh and Falkirk (178 versus 172).



Also of interest, there were similar Leeds to Glasgow (via Carlisle and Dumfries) services about ten years ago too.
 

daveslee

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I've used this train a few times, usually the Glasgow to Newcastle direction. I travel quite frequently from Hexham to Glasgow and back. When all is falling appart on the WCML between Glasgow and Carlisle the little 156 just trundles quietly through all those little stations past Dumfries. When there is snow and ice around the 156 quite often gets through when the Virgin Trains stop. Yes it seems to take forever and if the Virgin Trains of the Trans Penine Express trains are running then a change at Carlisle is the fastest route, but when the chips are down and the 156 is the only thing running then it can be rammed full and gratefully travelled.

Also I think that the competition between this service, the TPE trains and the Virgin trains for Carlisle to Glasgow keeps the prices reasonably in check.
 

DarloRich

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Well it's certainly been running since at least 1998 as looking at that timetable there was a Mon - Sat 0600 Sunderland (0635 ex Newcastle) - Glasgow C arr 1041. Return working was at 1548 ex Glasgow C to Newcastle arr 1948.

Also to anyone interested, back then there were two services Newcastle - Stranraer, returns were one Stranraer - Newcastle and a morning Girvan - Newcastle. All Mon - Sat only.
They have been running a lot longer than that. I can often remember the Orange 156's in the bay platform at Newcastle. The service used to have a name which was something like " The Ayrshire Trader"
 

Anon Mouse

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They have been running a lot longer than that. I can often remember the Orange 156's in the bay platform at Newcastle. The service used to have a name which was something like " The Ayrshire Trader"
Am I right in thinking that there used to be trolley service in BR days too?
 

Eagle

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The Northern Spirit service (or was it Arriva Trains Northern by then?) ran via the Carstairs route (rather than Dumfries) IIRC
Well in that case the WCML upgrade in 2004 is almost certainly what killed it off then (I know it was running in 2003, at least). NS became ATN in 2000, by the way.
 

142094

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as 142094 indicates they did have a trolley service - i can imagine it was well used on such a long journey! Shame northern dont thave the facilites to offer some thing similar today
Always nice when the Friends of S+C trolley gets on - services like York - Blackpool Nth would benefit majorly from some sort of trolley provision.
 

David Goddard

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Wondered which services this thread referred to, until I looked through the NRT and found the only place where these trains are actually shown as through services is Table 216 (Glasgow - Dumfries - Carlisle), which shows them as operated by SR.
Look up the same trains in Table 48 (Newcastle - Carlisle) and they are listed as operated by NT, with not even a mention of the fact that they operate through to or from Carlisle.
The two semi fast journeys on the Settle - Carlisle line (0947 ex Leeds and 1505 return) did at one point (circa 2000) operate through to Glasgow as well, these via Lockerbie and Carstairs.
 

Anvil1984

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Glasgow Central Its not shown on the Northern Rail network map so may be the offer ticket is not valid on this route, anyone able to confirm?
I wouldnt think it would be (not saying this officially). IIRC the Carlisle - Scotland bit is classed as operated by Scotrail so not valid
 

Eagle

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I wouldnt think it would be (not saying this officially). IIRC the Carlisle - Scotland bit is classed as operated by Scotrail so not valid
It's one of three services that change TOCs midway; the others being Sevenoaks to Kentish Town, and Heathrow Connect. There were other examples in the past (e.g., pre-LM the Birmingham--London Euston stopper changed from Central to Silverlink at Northampton).
 
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