Northern Rail Newcastle - Glasgow

[lyesbkz]

I wouldnt think it would be (not saying this officially). IIRC the Carlisle - Scotland bit is classed as operated by Scotrail so not valid

If I look at this page, and it says that the train is operated by Northern Rail; and the only mention of TOC restriction in the terms of the day ranger is:

Valid on Northern Rail services only

Then I'd personally assume that it was valid and would not expect any problems trying to use it. I wouldn't think to double-check validity because I'd be boarding a Northern train with a Northern day ranger ticket.

 

[142094]

I wonder if there's anything stopping someone pitching it to them as an independent venture?

Depends on which stock of course, but say Blackpool North - York is always 158s so there should be some room for a trolley.

 

[WestCoast]

Depends on which stock of course, but say Blackpool North - York is always 158s so there should be some room for a trolley.

Except from when a 155 sneaks on that route or a 158+153 set.

 

[yorkie]

I wouldnt think it would be (not saying this officially). IIRC the Carlisle - Scotland bit is classed as operated by Scotrail so not valid

That is officially the case but the systems that the rail industry uses cannot cope with TOC changes.

As the train is advertised as Northern throughout, then that means Northern tickets (and passes) are valid throughout. So you can use your Northern staff pass to get to Glasgow. However you'd be relying on the discretion of the guard to get you back to Carlisle! I'm sure this is the case as someone with a Northern pass asked for clarification, though that was about 3 years ago now, I can't see how the rules could have changed since then.

 

[142094]

Except from when a 155 sneaks on that route or a 158+153 set.

Haven't seen anything else than a 158 on it is a while now - wouldn't like to see a trolley try and get onto a 155...

 

[WestCoast]

Haven't seen anything else than a 158 on it is a while now - wouldn't like to see a trolley try and get onto a 155...

I saw a 150 on the route a couple of months ago and apparently a 144 managed to get on the route last year....

 

[Anvil1984]

That is officially the case but the systems that the rail industry uses cannot cope with TOC changes.

As the train is advertised as Northern throughout, then that means Northern tickets (and passes) are valid throughout. So you can use your Northern staff pass to get to Glasgow. However you'd be relying on the discretion of the guard to get you back to Carlisle! I'm sure this is the case as someone with a Northern pass asked for clarification, though that was about 3 years ago now, I can't see how the rules could have changed since then.

I can, management love to change the goal posts, bloody useless systems that we employ too (mumble and grumble, leave it to the North East guys to deal with)

Point stands though that the day ranger would be no use as you at the very least cant go both ways (only to Glasgow)

 

[tbtc]

NS became ATN in 2000, by the way.

Cheers - my memory is failing!

 

[CarterUSM]

I work the 0708 GLC - NCL pretty regularly as far as Carlisle. While rather lightly loaded as far as Dumfries, there is a small proportion of passengers travelling right through to Metrocentre or Newcastle as well as further destinations , though this increases greatly in the weeks before Christmas. Still a fair amount of custom from Dumfries and Annan daily though, and always a massive mob at Carlisle of course.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

If I look at this page, and it says that the train is operated by Northern Rail; and the only mention of TOC restriction in the terms of the day ranger is:

....

Then I'd personally assume that it was valid and would not expect any problems trying to use it. I wouldn't think to double-check validity because I'd be boarding a Northern train with a Northern day ranger ticket.

Are you talking about the offer available through a media outlet by collecting tokens? If so, do they not say to check Northernrail.org for for available services?

In any case, good luck getting back from Glasgow!

EDIT: Out of curiousity, at Newcastle do they announce it as a "Northern Rail service to Glasgow Central" or something else?

 

[Anon Mouse]

At Newcastle its announced as Northern service and at Glasgow its announced as a Scotrail service, However at Carlisle, its announced as a Northern service towards Newcastle and a Scotrail towards Glasgow. IIRC First Group staff can buy a freinds and family ticket only in one direction from Glasgow

 

[DarloRich]

Always nice when the Friends of S+C trolley gets on - services like York - Blackpool Nth would benefit majorly from some sort of trolley provision.

The Friends of the S&C trolley is good quality. Some of the longer Northern unit runs could really do with some refreshment facilites. Nottingham - Leeds for example in addition to those mentioned above

 

[142094]

EDIT: Out of curiousity, at Newcastle do they announce it as a "Northern Rail service to Glasgow Central" or something else?

Northern Rail service to Glasgow Central, but some do announce it as "to Carlisle with continuing service to Glasgow Central".

 

[reb0118]

We have been informed from head office that through trains starting in Scotland are classified as ScotRail throughout and that those starting at Newcastle are Northern Rail throughout for ticketing purposes.

Operationally they may change from Northern to Scotrail at Carlisle & vice versa.

This answer was provided in response to whether or not ScotRail staff passes and the First Group Friends & Family tickets were valid beyond Carlisle - they are on through services only and only in the Newcastle direction. There is a special price of £5 for a F & F single instead of £3.

Now for the vast majority of passengers there is no problem as most tickets are any permitted and interavailable as to operator.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Hi,

I see ScotRail run a few trains per day between Glasgow and Newcastle via Kilmarnock, Carlisle and Hexham. Whilst certainly this is an SR service north of Carlisle, is it classified as a Northern Rail or ScotRail service officially between Carlisle and Newcastle?

The reason I ask is in cases like using a Tyne & Tees Day Ranger from Hexham on it, heading for Newcastle. This is only valid on NT (in the case of this route in question): it is not valid on ScotRail, so would using a T&TDR to travel between Hexham and Newcastle on a ex-GLC ScotRail service be valid or not?

Cheers

Edit - Should add I think it is classified as Northern, but it's best to check!

 

[yorkie]

My understanding is:

• Northern passes are valid Newcastle <> Carlisle in either direction as this is Operated by Northern
• FSR passes are valid Carlisle <> Glasgow in either direction as this is Operated by FSR

• FSR passes should additionally be accepted eastbound Newcastle > Carlisle despite Northern operating this section of the journey
• Northern passes should additionally be accepted northbound Carlisle > Glasgow despite FSR operating this section of the journey

This has been confirmed by reb0118 in a previous thread (now merged)

(Passes may be used in the reverse direction only at the discretion of the guard by asking before departure and there is no right to be carried between Glasgow & Carlisle on a Northern pass in that direction, nor between Newcastle and Carlisle on a FSR pass in that direction)

This is because it is officially Northern between Carlisle & Newcastle and officially Scotrail between Carlisle & Glasgow however the systems that the rail industry use only show one TOC throughout for the through journey as they cannot cope with such changes en-route, and therefore the TOC it is shown as could be taken to apply as advertised, but if doing that I would advise taking a printout from the National Rail journey planner that supports this position.

 

[142094]

You should not have a problem using a Northern day ranger/rover on these services, as long as you are within the defined area. As for going all the way to Glasgow on a Northern Great Escape ticket, I'm still waiting for confirmation.

It is also not a clear cut divide at Carlisle as some Northern crews can work as far as Dumfries apparently.