Northern Rail timetables from the 14th of September 2020 until the 12th of December 2020

peters

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The Ellesmere Port - Helsby service was reduced to just one very early Liverpool - Earlestown - Ellesmere Port - Manchester Victoria - Bradford - Leeds diagram from July (SuX).

It would now appear that from September 14th, this will be replaced by a single evening Leeds - Bradford - Manchester Victoria - Ellesmere Port - Earlestown - Liverpool (SSuX) diagram.

Northern would appear to be using Covid-19 to reduce the service to an unusable level. The fear is that they may never reinstate workings in both the morning and evening peaks meaning passengers cannot make return journeys.
Both Chester services are also still severely reduced from mid-September. On the Chester-Victoria service they are removing evening journeys, rather than adding additional ones. On the Chester-Piccadilly via Altrincham line anyone working in Chester needs to be on a train leaving at 17:02, if they can't make that they need to wait until 19:02! It's also not good for those working in Northwich (arriving from the Knutsford/Altrincham direction) as the 08:37 arrival hasn't been reinstated, there is a 09:07 arrival but if workers use that it's going to be difficult to do a full day's work and make a 17:33 departure home, with the 18:33 not operating. Note this is on a line which is supposed to have a half-hourly service between Greenbank and Manchester.
 
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js1000

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Furious Liverpool Lime Streer - Manchester Piccadilly at xx17 has not been reinstated to an hourly service instead of peak hour only. Warrington West still only getting 1tph in each direction expect for morning and evening peak.
It's disappointing that the Liverpool to Manchester Airport service has been dropped. Seems to only run once during morning peak and twice during evening peak. This will mean quite a few stations with only an hourly service rather than half-hourly as it was before Covid. The maddening thing is it's not as they haven't got enough units to provide a full service now nearly all the 195s and 331s are in operation and most refurbishments are complete.
 

josla1

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It's disappointing that the Liverpool to Manchester Airport service has been dropped. Seems to only run once during morning peak and twice during evening peak. This will mean quite a few stations with only an hourly service rather than half-hourly as it was before Covid.
There is an agreement with Warrington borough council that Warrington West (my local station) has 2tph in both directions but this isn’t being fulfilled. I wonder if they will have anything to say on it?
 

js1000

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There is an agreement with Warrington borough council that Warrington West (my local station) has 2tph in both directions but this isn’t being fulfilled. I wonder if they will have anything to say on it?
I always thought that half-hourly service was a franchise requirement. Now the franchise has ended the DfT effectively have carte blanche to do what they want.

My argument is how they justify fares remaining the same if they are cutting many services from hourly to half-hourly. Otherwise I assume this is a short term measure until next summer when the virus subsides and patronage picks up and a full timetable can be re-introduced.
 

johntea

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It was popular with the fare dodgers between Castleford and Wakefield. 1 stop Castleford to Normanton on the Sheffield get thrown off then get the Huddersfield 5 mins behind 1 stop and get thrown off at Wakefield where they wanted to go
Pre COVID there seemed to be a regular presence by revenue at Wakefield Kirkgate though!

Castleford to Huddersfield is (was!) a useful service for Manchester without the 'stress' of Leeds

I've noticed the Goole via Knottingley services are pencilled in as returning next week, quite surprised at that...how many passengers are going to turn up at stations between Goole and Knottingley considering they've had literally nothing for six months will be interesting to see! Thought they may have tried a stealth reduction of the service to start / terminate at Knottingley
 

Adam0984

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Pre COVID there seemed to be a regular presence by revenue at Wakefield Kirkgate though!

Castleford to Huddersfield is (was!) a useful service for Manchester without the 'stress' of Leeds

I've noticed the Goole via Knottingley services are pencilled in as returning next week, quite surprised at that...how many passengers are going to turn up at stations between Goole and Knottingley considering they've had literally nothing for six months will be interesting to see! Thought they may have tried a stealth reduction of the service to start / terminate at Knottingley
The revenue presence helps but still doesn't deter them. I am surprised it hasn't returned to at least 2 hourly seems to have been forgotten about. As for the Goole line it probably has to be introduced otherwise it probably affects some sort of closure clause
 
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Table 28 has the Hull-Scarborough service with two trains at the same time on the single line north of Bridlington. Table 30 (Sheffield-Scarborough via Hull) has the achievable times derived from the 19/20 timetable. Which is it to be?
 

ChrisC

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There’s no return of the Sheffield to Gainsborough Central trains although I’m not really too surprised about that. Not so good that Lincoln, as a result of that, has now lost its faster service to Sheffield with trains once again having to call at all stations between Worksop and Sheffield. Also it removes good connections at Worksop from the Robin Hood Line. There are also now no through trains from Retford and Worksop to any stations beyond Sheffield including Meadowhall. Worksop and stations on the Robin Hood Line from the Mansfield area now have a far worse service and more inconvenient onward connections than they did even before the Sheffield to Gainsborough service began last year.
 

Spandau

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BBC North East & Cumbria reported today on the axing of a peak hour service into Carlisle from Monday September 13th. The 05:58 from Barrow is to terminate at Whitehaven from next week to the disappointment of commuters and students from West Cumbria who use this train to reach Carlisle (08:32) for an 09:00 start. There will be no alternative to reach Carlisle by 9am for those originating south of Whitehaven. The only remaining services from Whitehaven and stations north thereof arrive Carlisle at 07:38 and 09:24.

The 08:32 arrival certainly looked well filled from the BBC film. More bad publicity for Northern!
 

Baxenden Bank

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BBC North East & Cumbria reported today on the axing of a peak hour service into Carlisle from Monday September 13th. The 05:58 from Barrow is to terminate at Whitehaven from next week to the disappointment of commuters and students from West Cumbria who use this train to reach Carlisle (08:32) for an 09:00 start. There will be no alternative to reach Carlisle by 9am for those originating south of Whitehaven. The only remaining services from Whitehaven and stations north thereof arrive Carlisle at 07:38 and 09:24.

The 08:32 arrival certainly looked well filled from the BBC film. More bad publicity for Northern!
That's why it must be cancelled. Northern have discovered that they like running empty trains, passengers are a nuisance to them! As the last TOC to remove "key worker timetables" (still running until last week), this latest episode should not come as a surprise.

There are two ways to reduce overcrowding:
a) run more (or longer) trains,
b) cancel the problem train.

Guess which is easier for Northern.
 

yorksrob

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BBC North East & Cumbria reported today on the axing of a peak hour service into Carlisle from Monday September 13th. The 05:58 from Barrow is to terminate at Whitehaven from next week to the disappointment of commuters and students from West Cumbria who use this train to reach Carlisle (08:32) for an 09:00 start. There will be no alternative to reach Carlisle by 9am for those originating south of Whitehaven. The only remaining services from Whitehaven and stations north thereof arrive Carlisle at 07:38 and 09:24.

The 08:32 arrival certainly looked well filled from the BBC film. More bad publicity for Northern!
That's why it must be cancelled. Northern have discovered that they like running empty trains, passengers are a nuisance to them! As the last TOC to remove "key worker timetables" (still running until last week), this latest episode should not come as a surprise.

There are two ways to reduce overcrowding:
a) run more (or longer) trains,
b) cancel the problem train.

Guess which is easier for Northern.
The question is, what's happening to either the train or the staff that means that they can no longer continue on a peak service. Unless they're turning them around to run another train into Barrow.
 
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When I enquired on twitter why there were Northern trains leaving Scarborough for Sheffield at xx57 on one timetable and xx00 on another they replied that one was a stopping service at xx57 and the other a semi-fast running three minutes afterwards!!
 

158756

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The question is, what's happening to either the train or the staff that means that they can no longer continue on a peak service. Unless they're turning them around to run another train into Barrow.
Going off RTT it looks like the train will run empty to Workington sidings and just park up for the duration of the morning peak, before emerging to take the 1012 Whitehaven - Barrow, the return working of the earlier train which currently starts from Carlisle.

It certainly won't have any problems with social distancing.
 

yorksrob

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Going off RTT it looks like the train will run empty to Workington sidings and just park up for the duration of the morning peak, before emerging to take the 1012 Whitehaven - Barrow, the return working of the earlier train which currently starts from Carlisle.

It certainly won't have any problems with social distancing.
Oh, so not much time to get to Carlisle and back then.
 

TheSel

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That's why it must be cancelled. Northern have discovered that they like running empty trains, passengers are a nuisance to them! As the last TOC to remove "key worker timetables" (still running until last week), this latest episode should not come as a surprise.

There are two ways to reduce overcrowding:
a) run more (or longer) trains,
b) cancel the problem train.

Guess which is easier for Northern.
Not only that, but by not running the train, Northern also:
  • please the anti-pollution brigade by using less fuel and reducing the unit's carbon footprint
  • reduce the losses incurred by fares evasion.
Win win.
 

158756

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Oh, so not much time to get to Carlisle and back then.
Apologies if my previous post wasn't clear - there's ample time to get to Carlisle and back, because that's exactly what it currently does, it's the same diagram.

Current diagram:

0558 Barrow - Carlisle (calls Whitehaven 0721, arrives Carlisle 0832)
0902 Carlisle - Barrow (departs Whitehaven 1012)

From 14th September:

0558 Barrow - Whitehaven (arrives at 0722)
0724 Whitehaven - Workington H.S
0953 Workington H.S - Whitehaven
1012 Whitehaven - Barrow

They've just cancelled the round trip between Whitehaven and Carlisle.
 

yorksrob

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Apologies if my previous post wasn't clear - there's ample time to get to Carlisle and back, because that's exactly what it currently does, it's the same diagram.

Current diagram:

0558 Barrow - Carlisle (calls Whitehaven 0721, arrives Carlisle 0832)
0902 Carlisle - Barrow (departs Whitehaven 1012)

From 14th September:

0558 Barrow - Whitehaven (arrives at 0722)
0724 Whitehaven - Workington H.S
0953 Workington H.S - Whitehaven
1012 Whitehaven - Barrow

They've just cancelled the round trip between Whitehaven and Carlisle.
Ah apologies - I thought it arrived later.

Hard to see what justification there is for not running it all the way. That said, in my experience, staffing on that line has traditionally been patchy.
 

Rail Ranger

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Stockport Liberal Democrats now indicating that the Government has decided to provide a train service on the Rose Hill line. More details to follow.
 

janb

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BBC North East & Cumbria reported today on the axing of a peak hour service into Carlisle from Monday September 13th. The 05:58 from Barrow is to terminate at Whitehaven from next week to the disappointment of commuters and students from West Cumbria who use this train to reach Carlisle (08:32) for an 09:00 start. There will be no alternative to reach Carlisle by 9am for those originating south of Whitehaven. The only remaining services from Whitehaven and stations north thereof arrive Carlisle at 07:38 and 09:24.

The 08:32 arrival certainly looked well filled from the BBC film. More bad publicity for Northern!
The train has now been reinstated.

119094735_3552563358095245_5581761144668500057_o.jpg
 

Spandau

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Dare I say common sense prevails?
But the damage is done! The website timetables are now incorrect, thousands of viewers have decided rail is unreliable, and worst some commuters may have thrown in their jobs and students abandoned their courses.
What Northern says is frankly weasel speak.
 

Baxenden Bank

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Dare I say common sense prevails?
Some might suggest that, had common sense been applied at the outset, the whole situation could have been avoided. Now expect uproar from Sellafield workers!

Is the rail industry, and Northern in particular, so much more greatly affected by large numbers of vulnerable workers, or is it just more visible than in other industries?

PS the 0750 ex Barrow is not in the pdf timetable anyway! The 0651 is, which I assumed the letter referred to!
 
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Fisherman80

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Anyone who downloaded the Leeds to Carlisle/Morecambe timetable from the Northern Rail website before today (10th September) should disregard it.
The timetable which is now available is the correct one as the previous one contained multiple errors on the Leeds to Morecambe section of the timetable.
 

peters

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Rose Hill not fully losing its service

Note on Northern website that the route is 'under review', so will that mean fewer services to New Mills Central to free up drivers to take services to Rose Hill?
 

Andy Pacer

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Note on Northern website that the route is 'under review', so will that mean fewer services to New Mills Central to free up drivers to take services to Rose Hill?
Good point. I doubt extra resources would suddenly be available.
 

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