Northern Rail timetables from the 14th of September 2020 until the 12th of December 2020

[Adam0984]

Its not the unit thats the issue its drivers that need releasing for training on new trains as well as a small shortage due to training courses been paused so drivers that would be productive if covid hadn't happened still arent finished training and route learning

 

[peters]

Terms of reference for Northern's "Review".

Right, folks - have a look for somewhere we can save a unit - somewhere where the MP isn't going to make such a fuss.

It's probably not freeing up a train that's the issue, in the Pacer allocations thread it mentions a Pacer+Sprinter combination head back to the depot at around 07:30 but finding someone to drive it all day might be an issue.

 

[Adam0984]

This is the timetable of the actual trains geared around the school times not commuters
All details and this poster available at
www.northernrailway.co.uk/Rosehill2020

 

[northernchris]

It's not been the best of days reliability wise, there's been a few cancellations due to 'a short notice change to the timetable.' I assume this means the trains will be removed from the timetable going forwards

 

[Camden]

Government: "Head back to your desks everyone"
Government owned train company: "But don't expect us to take you"

 

[yorksrob]

It's not been the best of days reliability wise, there's been a few cancellations due to 'a short notice change to the timetable.' I assume this means the trains will be removed from the timetable going forwards

What routes were these on ?

 

[northernchris]

What routes were these on ?

Leeds - Knottingley, was 0730 and 1929 ex Leeds, and a Leeds - Knaresborough. There could have been others too

 

[yorksrob]

Leeds - Knottingley, was 0730 and 1929 ex Leeds, and a Leeds - Knaresborough. There could have been others too

Ah, thanks. Leeds - Knottingly is only hourly, so any trains missing long term would be a problem !

 

[Adam0984]

There's been a couple of hiccups but they will be sorted the fall out of a rushed timetable and rushed train crew diagrams

 

[Paul_10]

In true Northern fashion, we lose a couple of trains in the peak period on the Morecambe line. I think its been commented on this thread previously but I would love to know the logic and thinking behind it. Even more so when there is a set parked up which could be used as the replacement train that would of headed to Leeds.

Now obviously if that can't be done, you would of thought perhaps they would alter the timings which could be more suitable for the school children and the commuters. Departing at 16:43 and 17:49 means a long wait if you want a train back to Morecambe.

 

[swissrailpassion]

Two trains are timetabled to use the single line at the same time between Bridlington and Hunmanby. Nearly every southbound Sheffield train has to wait 3 or 4 minutes. How is this acceptable?

 

[30907]

Two trains are timetabled to use the single line at the same time between Bridlington and Hunmanby. Nearly every southbound Sheffield train has to wait 3 or 4 minutes. How is this acceptable?

Better to keep the southbound public times at the earliest possible, just in case the northbound train is delayed? 1-2 minutes late at Hull, R/T at Doncaster, is marginal. Not uncommon practice in GB, though unusual to have it repeated hourly for much of the day.

 

[YorksLad12]

Good to see Nottingham to Leeds back but there’s still no Lincoln to Leeds and not surprisingly no Sheffield to Gainsborough Central. I wonder if the Nottingham service will be strengthened between Sheffield and Leeds if passenger numbers begin to rise especially between Barnsley and Meadowhall on Saturdays.

If I remember I'll keep an eye out on the 14th and report back on unit lengths (unless someone here is driving that route).

I was preoccupied Monday and Tuesday, but glancing out of the window on the top of most hours today showed a 2-carriage 158 (various liveries) at 17B. So no strengthening yet, but it's early days.

 

[Ianno87]

Two trains are timetabled to use the single line at the same time between Bridlington and Hunmanby. Nearly every southbound Sheffield train has to wait 3 or 4 minutes. How is this acceptable?

Better to keep the southbound public times at the earliest possible, just in case the northbound train is delayed? 1-2 minutes late at Hull, R/T at Doncaster, is marginal. Not uncommon practice in GB, though unusual to have it repeated hourly for much of the day.

Straight out clash.

But certainly not "common practice".

 

[Eloise]

Two trains are timetabled to use the single line at the same time between Bridlington and Hunmanby. Nearly every southbound Sheffield train has to wait 3 or 4 minutes. How is this acceptable?

There is background to this... but still an own goal of sorts.

 

[swissrailpassion]

There is background to this... but still an own goal of sorts.

Timetable 30 has trains leaving Scarborough at xx00 and timetable 28 has the same trains leaving at xx57. Currently trains are leaving Scarborough at xx57 and waiting 3 or 4 minutes at Hunmanby before arriving in Bridlington up to 5 minutes late each hour.
It's nuts.
At the start of September both timetables showed xx00 but few stops at Nafferton. Presumably to include this stop on all trains someone decided to start the trains 3 minutes earlier without realising the nature of the route.
When I contacted Northern about it they said there were two trains leaving Scarborough every hour - one at xx57 and another express at xx00!!!!
With that level of competence I'm surprised Northern functions.

 

[HSP 2]

When I contacted Northern about it they said there were two trains leaving Scarborough every hour - one at xx57 and another express at xx00!!!!
With that level of competence I'm surprised Northern functions.

I don't think that Northern functions now, as it's not northern, but put the government in charge of any railway and what do you get?

 

[Eloise]

Trains leave Scarborough for Hull at xx:57 except the 12:57 which leaves at 13:00.

 

[berneyarms]

Timetable 30 has trains leaving Scarborough at xx00 and timetable 28 has the same trains leaving at xx57. Currently trains are leaving Scarborough at xx57 and waiting 3 or 4 minutes at Hunmanby before arriving in Bridlington up to 5 minutes late each hour.
It's nuts.
At the start of September both timetables showed xx00 but few stops at Nafferton. Presumably to include this stop on all trains someone decided to start the trains 3 minutes earlier without realising the nature of the route.
When I contacted Northern about it they said there were two trains leaving Scarborough every hour - one at xx57 and another express at xx00!!!!
With that level of competence I'm surprised Northern functions.

Just looking at the two timetables on the Northern website, and they don’t have different times.

They both show the exact same departure times from Scarborough.

Perhaps a late edit - they’ve updated several pdfs from the original versions.

 

[AMD]

In true Northern fashion, we lose a couple of trains in the peak period on the Morecambe line. I think its been commented on this thread previously but I would love to know the logic and thinking behind it. Even more so when there is a set parked up which could be used as the replacement train that would of headed to Leeds.

Now obviously if that can't be done, you would of thought perhaps they would alter the timings which could be more suitable for the school children and the commuters. Departing at 16:43 and 17:49 means a long wait if you want a train back to Morecambe.

The problem isn't trains but traincrew - having seen the first few days of operation of the timetable things are now very tight in that there is not much slack if disruption (or more sickness/ self isolation) happens - I was actually working the Morecambe branch yesterday covering it off standby duty and I was the only standby available at my depot yesterday ie there was no slack whatsoever.

 

[swissrailpassion]

Just looking at the two timetables on the Northern website, and they don have different times.

They both show the exact same departure times from Scarborough.

Perhaps a late edit - they’ve updated several pdfs from the original versions.

This is an improvement, to have one timetable BUT it is still faulty as up trains leave Hunmanby at xx17 before down trains arrive at xx21 or xx22. The down trains occupy the single line. How has the timetable writer allowed this?

 

[Eloise]

This is an improvement, to have one timetable BUT it is still faulty as up trains leave Hunmanby at xx17 before down trains arrive at xx21 or xx22. The down trains occupy the single line. How has the timetable writer allowed this?

Quite simply possibly human error. Still a very manual process and dealing with a lot of change in a short space of time. The sheer number of interventions made in the timetable this year has never been seen before. Add in remote working and that. These things sadly happen from time to time.

 

[swissrailpassion]

It's more surprising because a workable timetable with departures from Scarborough at xx00 was printed at the start of September then misteriously replaced by the one containing mistakes.

 

[Eloise]

Indeed and as I said in a previous post things happened in the background that caused that to change.

 

[bengley]

Nobody seems to have mentioned the interesting but unfortunately Saturdays only Macclesfield to Blackpool North services.

 

[swissrailpassion]

Of the 15 trains from Scarborough to Hull or Sheffield only 3 managed right time yesterday.

 

[Eloise]

Of the 15 trains from Scarborough to Hull or Sheffield only 3 managed right time yesterday.

Correct, due to schedule issues which have been tactfully pointed out above previously. Schedule errors should reduce in number from Monday.

 

[Ianno87]

Quite simply possibly human error. Still a very manual process and dealing with a lot of change in a short space of time. The sheer number of interventions made in the timetable this year has never been seen before. Add in remote working and that. These things sadly happen from time to time.

Given the sheer volume of changes train planners have been dealing with for months on end now, this is about the first fundamental clash to have been spotted.

That is quite remarkable, and a reflection on the high standard of train planners across Network Rail and the TOCs.

 

[Eloise]

Given the sheer volume of changes train planners have been dealing with for months on end now, this is about the first fundamental clash to have been spotted.

That is quite remarkable, and a reflection on the high standard of train planners across Network Rail and the TOCs.

There are worst locations that could go wrong or where there’s an issue but whilst embarrassing trains are running. As I have a said a couple of times some things in the background prompted a change and it was done quite last minute.

There were some fairly fundamental conflicts early days of lockdown across the country as everyone adapted to remote or home working.

 

[darrenmcfc]

Nobody seems to have mentioned the interesting but unfortunately Saturdays only Macclesfield to Blackpool North services.

Not seen that in the northern timetables, is it in addition to the hourly Mcr - Stoke?