Northern Rail Took My season ticket and will issue an MG11

[Clip]

Does anyone know if there is a copy of this poster available anywhere online? I've not seen it and I'm interested in the exact wording.

No. The only posters I saw when travelling on Northern network the other day were ones telling you it is an offence to board a train without a ticket where facilities are provided.

Good to see the usual suspects coming up with the usual rubbish toi try and muddy the waters and try and get the OP(who is in the wrong) off.

 

[34D]

Again, there may some benefit to holding off all this hypothetical discussion, until it ever happens that the OP is actually charged with any of these offences...

I think I agree. I shall try to zip it.

 

[Darandio]

No. The only posters I saw when travelling on Northern network the other day were ones telling you it is an offence to board a train without a ticket where facilities are provided.

I haven't seen any other than this either. They even have quirky posters such as the guy in the back of the pickup truck, trying to get a free ride.

 

[joke2711]

No. The only posters I saw when travelling on Northern network the other day were ones telling you it is an offence to board a train without a ticket where facilities are provided.

Good to see the usual suspects coming up with the usual rubbish toi try and muddy the waters and try and get the OP(who is in the wrong) off.

This was a thread I raised this on a while back. I did take a picture of the Poster but have since deleted it. However this refers to Hindley Station

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=105097&highlight=hindley

So if the ticket office is open at Hindley, you can still choose to board the train and purchase an anytime ticket? Or is it an offence??

 

[Agent_c]

I would hate to argue in court that a poster is an authorised person...

The person who authorised the poster is. It's communicating the offer, just as a poster offering a reward for a lost dog isn't a poster, and in carbolic, it wasn't the medium of the advertisement that was the person - contracts can only be with people, but can be communicated in a poster.

But it's all moot as the NCoC points out...

 

[gray1404]

Can't find a poster but this is on their website:

"For your safety, every single Northern Rail train has a conductor on-board (to operate the doors and despatch the train at stations) - if they are available, make it known you wish to purchase a ticket for the journey you want to make. If they aren’t available, or they are busy with another customer, please purchase a ticket when you arrive at your destination. If they do not pass through the carriage, and you are able to, you can try to find them to make your purchase."

There's nothing on the website to suggest it's OK to board without a ticket when starting from a station that has ticket selling facilities.

The poster on board is less wording then this and implies the conductor on the train is there to help you, safety (if I remember correctly) and to sell you a ticket. I am not going to be on a Northern service for a while but I shall take a photo of it if I can next time I'm on board. I believe they are across their network on trains so if anyone sees one and beats me to it in terms of taking a photo of one then please do.
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Either way, Northern is sending mixed messages about buying tickets to your "normal" customer. Those of us on there who visit on a regular basis (not just once we land ourselves in trouble) have an interest in railways and are more likely to ensure we have a ticket before boarding covring our entire journey, when indeed it is possible to buy one at the station.

 

[Clip]

I haven't seen any other than this either. They even have quirky posters such as the guy in the back of the pickup truck, trying to get a free ride.

Yup that's the ones - google only came up with this page on it

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/crime/new-campaign-to-reduce-fare-dodging-in-south-yorkshire-1-6408225

 

[lyesbkz]

The poster on board is less wording then this and implies the conductor on the train is there to help you, safety (if I remember correctly) and to sell you a ticket. I am not going to be on a Northern service for a while but I shall take a photo of it if I can next time I'm on board. I believe they are across their network on trains so if anyone sees one and beats me to it in terms of taking a photo of one then please do.

I'm guessing you're referring to this one shown in this RMT post.

 

[Clip]

Ive seen them but they didn't have on it about the conductor selling a ticket. Are those in places that don't have facilities?

 

[enrag2000]

Did you ask for a single ticket St Helens to Eccles on each day or a return? Presumably you would not have a car at Eccles so what were you going to do about your journey home?

 

[gray1404]

I'm guessing you're referring to this one shown in this RMT post.

Thats the one. I would bet my bottom dollor there was one of those posters on the train the OP traveled on the morning in question. "The conductor on this train will be happy to sell you a ticket." Could such wording be used as a notice giving permission to travel.....

 

[najaB]

Thats the one. I would bet my bottom dollor there was one of those posters on the train the OP traveled on the morning in question. "The conductor on this train will be happy to sell you a ticket." Could such wording be used as a notice giving permission to travel.....

If it was that poster, then no. There is nothing in the poster that excuses the passenger from their obligations under the conditions of carriage.

 

[gray1404]

If it was that poster, then no. There is nothing in the poster that excuses the passenger from their obligations under the conditions of carriage.

I totally agree with you on the legal point made i.e. poster doesn't exempt passenger from NRCOC obligations. However, it is not helpful at all for that information (contained within the poster) to be given out in visual form. i.e. the conductor will be happy to sell you a ticket. A few months ago the booking office at my local station was being rebuilt so there was only a TVM. The card payment feature of this failed and as such it was only taking cash. A poster appeared. "There is fault with the ticket machiene. You may buy your ticket from a Ticket Inpector on the train or at your desintation. You will not be charged a penalty fare." You could argue that despite this poster the NRCOC still would strictly require the customer to buy their ticket using cash. However, many customers relied on it and started their journey without tickets.

 

[najaB]

You could argue that despite this poster the NRCOC still would strictly require the customer to buy their ticket using cash. However, many customers relied on it and started their journey without tickets.

The question of if a TVM that doesn't accept your chosen payment method is an opportunity to pay and if you are therefore obligated to use it is a separate discussion and as such deserves its own thread. And, as luck would have it, here's one we made earlier.

If you want to discuss this further, PM the mods to get the thread unlocked.

 

[Clip]

Thats the one. I would bet my bottom dollor there was one of those posters on the train the OP traveled on the morning in question. "The conductor on this train will be happy to sell you a ticket." Could such wording be used as a notice giving permission to travel.....

All this is now just waffle and doesnt help the OP at all in their situation. Its quite simple that they did not have a ticket when they boarded the train.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I would hate to argue in court that a poster is an authorised person...

It would be words to the effect that there wwas a poster give permission (to buy a ticket on the train).

I wonder how much success you have had with your personal 'view' of Contract Law in Court, where this is the issue to be addressed :-

All this is now just waffle and doesnt help the OP at all in their situation. Its quite simple that they did not have a ticket when they boarded the train.

There really isn't much more to be said.

 

[gray1404]

All I am saying is that posters like that one on the train ae not helpful. They give misleading messages to customers and make them think it is ok for them to buy their tickets on the train. These sort of misleading representations should not be being made by Northern and they should be consistant about the messages they send out.

If they where it would mean more customers would have a better understanding of the fact that tickets covering the entire journey must be brought before boarding when a ticket office is there. Many customers believe still that it is totally fine to sill buy the ticket on the train.

 

[bb21]

The OP made no mention of those posters so I think it would be safe to discount the effect they had on her.

Seeing that the OP is not returning, there is little point of this thread continuing. We have had discussions about the fairness of these posters before so there really isn't much else to be added. If anyone feels that there are substantial new arguments to be made, they have the option of either starting a new thread or requesting that one of the old threads be unlocked.