Northern Rail - what would have made them 'good'?

[sprinterguy]

Northern were not bad, but they were not as good as Arriva Trains Northern.

Really? hock: I thought Arriva Trains Northern were appalling. Train maintenance, staff morale and performance all seem to have been much improved and stabilised under the eleven (and a bit) years of Northern's tenure, compared to the hit-and-miss qualities of ATN.

 

[pemma]

Really? hock: I thought Arriva Trains Northern were appalling. Train maintenance, staff morale and performance all seem to have been much improved and stabilised under the eleven (and a bit) years of Northern's tenure, compared to the hit-and-miss qualities of ATN.

Arriva purchased troubled MTL who originally had the franchise and inherited a number of problems. It also was more common for problems to occur in the early days of privatisation whoever had the franchise, whether it be Arriva, First, National Express or Connex.

Northern took the decision to maintain all the 153s and 158s (ex-ATN and ex-FNW) at Neville Hill, all the 150s at Newton Heath and to maintain the 142s and 156s at two depots (not three) which seems to have improved unit reliability. ATN didn't have that option due to only having a RRNE franchise and they had very small fleets of 150s, 153s and 155s.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Really? hock: I thought Arriva Trains Northern were appalling. Train maintenance, staff morale and performance all seem to have been much improved and stabilised under the eleven (and a bit) years of Northern's tenure, compared to the hit-and-miss qualities of ATN.

MTL made an absolute pig's ear of Northern Spirit. The guards dispute that rumbled on (and on...and on) was a great example of that. When Arriva bought them out it took Arriva a good 12-18 months to fix the mess that MTL had made.

But when the MTL mess had been cleared up, I'd honestly say what Arriva achieved in those 3-4 years was far in excess of anything that Serco/Abellio have managed in the 12 years since. ]

Arriva were prepared to try things off their own bat whereas Serco/Abellio have done absolutely nothing unless someone else paid. Arriva invested their own money in the 37s for the overcrowded Harrogate peak trains; Serco/Abellio refused to move the 5x142s out of warm store in Blackpool for the overcrowded Rochdale trains until TfGM coughed up the cash. Any "improvement"- CCTV, the 158s, labelling a new seat cover and some purple paint a "refurbishment", whatever- has been because somebody else paid. "No growth" doesn't mean "sit on your backside doing nothing but counting the readies".

Still, I get to watch Arriva prove me wrong now

 

[sprinterguy]

Arriva purchased troubled MTL who originally had the franchise and inherited a number of problems.

MTL made an absolute pig's ear of Northern Spirit. The guards dispute that rumbled on (and on...and on) was a great example of that. When Arriva bought them out it took Arriva a good 12-18 months to fix the mess that MTL had made.

I actually never had a problem with the MTL operated Northern Spirit. I remember seeing the result of the guard's dispute and overall traincrew shortages; swathes of cancelled services due to lack of staff; reported on Look North, but from a personal viewpoint it only seemed to affect the Leeds area which might as well have been the other side of the world compared to the Tyne and Wear conurbation.

And they did undertake a thorough refurbishment of the 142, 156 and 158 fleets which formed the mainstay of services in the north east, although the former two were admittedly completed under the auspices of Arriva management.
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Arriva invested their own money in the 37s for the overcrowded Harrogate peak trains; Serco/Abellio refused to move the 5x142s out of warm store in Blackpool for the overcrowded Rochdale trains until TfGM coughed up the cash.

That's a good point in favour of Arriva.
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Still, I get to watch Arriva prove me wrong now

I think that Arriva are in a far stronger position now than they were at the time they managed Arriva Trains Northern, and their increasingly competent management of Arriva Trains Wales, a franchise with a comparable mix of high density commuter, regional and long distance rural services, bodes well for the future of the new Northern franchise, not forgetting that Arriva Northern can benefit from the shared experience of the larger Arriva Rail UK group, which has expanded greatly since the early years of this millennium.