Of course, we'll soon have an exciting new option without a reversal. How about this ECS working?
http://www.charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/liverail/train/10809032
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Northern rolling stock changes post electrification
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Of course, we'll soon have an exciting new option without a reversal. How about this ECS working?
http://www.charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/liverail/train/10809032
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R
RailUK Forums
'50032' was referring to ECS workings between Newton Heath and Piccadilly, not Newton Heath and Stockport.
It's the only Piccadilly to Newton Heath ECS via the Ordsall Curve I can find at the moment (M/F - I haven't checked weekends) - it currently reverses at Eccles. It's the ECS off a Buxton to Piccadilly train which runs into Platform 14 at Picc, so it doesn't go against what I said in #4816.
There are also going to be two Oxford Road to Newton Heath ECS via the chord - both are ex CLC stoppers, one currently reverses at Salford Crescent, the other at Ashburys.
Apart from the one ex-Buxton train mentioned above, all other ECS workings between Newton Heath and Piccadilly look as though they're going to continue reversing at Ashburys, Guide Bridge, or Stalybridge.
Not all journeys have been loaded on to the data feed yet, so there's the possibility of a few more ECS workings via the chord.
You're certainly right up to now. On the December diagrams, Stockport is still shown as supplying the two existing ECS to New Mills, and the stock for the 0605 Stockport-Liverpool. The fourth duty doesn't look as certain.
There are going to be plenty of changes yet, though - apart from two exceptions, no trains are showing between Bolton and Preston, other than those which couldn't possibly go diesel, and the TPE to Glasgow and Edinburgh are still shown as operating via Wigan North Western.
The ECS of the late Blackpool to Hazel Grove train is still shown as running into Stockport CMD, even though the service train is itself not shown. It could go electric and still run into Stockport, of course, but that would result in an imbalance, i.e. more electric duties finishing at Stockport than starting. So there must be changes to come.
Pictures have been posted in the Northern units refurbishment thread as well, which show the train in service yesterday with "Door out-of-order" notices on one door.
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=128846&page=92
I thought someone might have picked up on the above howler, although I've only just noticed it myself. It should, of course, read 'other than those which couldn't possibly go electric'.
Class 319 caught fire.
http://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/news/..._at_St_Helens_Central_station_following_fire/
http://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/news/..._at_St_Helens_Central_station_following_fire/
DJH1971
Established Member
I've yet to see one in the metal
1179_Clee2
Member
New RAIL magazine 833 claims
Northern Class 170 transfers from Scotrail in 2018 will be
4 in February
6 in July
6 in November
Northern Class 170 transfers from Scotrail in 2018 will be
4 in February
6 in July
6 in November
319382 operated the 1721 Lime Street to Manchester Victoria last night, and consequently was the lead unit on the 2209 Victoria to Lime Street.
Sorry, I didn't have any means of uploading the information at the time.
The charlwoodhouse ('Open Rail') website is now showing what looks to be a full service on the Manchester-Bolton-Preston corridor, but the only journeys showing as being 319-operated are those which don't run north of Bolton, which I think is only four a day. Even then, they are shown as interworking with journeys which are clearly going to remain diesel-operated. So it may be that electric operation through Bolton is off, for the moment.
If and when Manchester-Preston does go electric, it looks as though the Lime Street to Manchester Victoria stoppers (due Victoria circa xx.20) are going to interwork with Victoria-Preston journeys departing xx.23.
Greybeard33
Established Member
Do the Hazel Grove to Preston and Airport to Preston DMU diagrams all appear to include workings on unelectrified lines, or could 319s be substituted on some diagrams (using Sprinter timings) once the wires are ready?
A quick check shows the 08:36 Hazel Grove to Preston is still part of the same diagram as the 06:35 Chester to Stockport. Also the two evening peak extensions of Preston-Hazel Grove services to Buxton remain.
As there is a 2J91 06:00 Bolton - Man Vic, and a 5J44 00:43 Man Vic - Bolton in the system, perhaps there is an interim plan to stable a 319 at Bolton (in the bay?) overnight, until the May 2018 timetable change at least.
That will make a great photograph if so.
The rest of the duty should be:
1320 Lime Street - Victoria
1502 Victoria - Lime Street
1620 Lime Street - Victoria
1738 Victoria - Lime Street
1847 Lime Street - Warrington BQ
1951 Warrington BQ - Lime Street
2147 Lime Street - Preston
I would guess that, being the first unit to park up at Preston, it will be the second to depart tomorrow morning, making it 0730/1030/1330 Preston - Lime Street (middle two extended to South Parkway), then 1739 Lime Street - Victoria & 1902 return, and 2022 Lime Street & 2209 return (latterly as trailing unit).
I've omitted depot/shunt moves.
The only catch being that those journeys are showing as interworking with journeys which are still shown as diesel-operated. So if, in the short term at least, 2J91 and 5J44 are going to be diesel-operated, that rather defeats the point of the stabling at Bolton, since the required unit(s) could run ECS from Newton Heath to Bolton in time for the 0600 departure.
Greybeard33
Established Member
The TPE provisional timetable information on the same website shows all the 350-operated Manchester Airport to Glasgow/Edinburgh services switching from the Chat Moss line to the Chorley line from Monday 12 Feb 2018. So maybe that is now the target for the wires to go live.
Are Northern making any changes to Bolton/Wigan services from that date? If not I can see Wigan passengers being slightly unhappy!
Greybeard33
Established Member
No, at the moment Northern's timetables all run through to the May 2018 change, so there are no replacement services between Wigan North Western and Manchester. But there is plenty of time for further updates before December 2017. The TOCs do not coordinate their uploads. Maybe Northern will also need a February change to introduce the first four ex-Scotrail 170s on Manchester Airport to Cumbria services in place of the TPE 185s?
notlob.divad
Established Member
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Keep in mind the Liverpool Lime Street upgrade works that will be going on during the December to May timetable period, it may make getting units in and out of Allerton more difficult. So other depots may have to see more over night stabling/servicing of units and more units stabled in stations for the night. Irrespective of their power source. (Whilst appreciating Newton Heath cannot take EMUs due to a lack of wires.)
DJH1971
Established Member
Saw it yesterday at St Helens Junction
I take your point, however:
Currently the units that form 2J91 the 06:00 from Bolton - Man Vic in a morning, arrive at Bolton the night before at 19:24 and stable (the 17:57 Buxton to Bolton service). At least I think that's what happens...
From December there is a new ECS in the system at 19:32 Bolton - Man Vic as 5E82. This implies the DMU's from Buxton return to Man Vic (presumably to work elsewhere). Equally, the 5J44 ECS which moves a 319 to Bolton late at night is a new one in the system that does not currently exist (even as a DMU move).
I suppose all will become clear in time, and maybe there is a short term plan to run some electric services to Bolton only, while the rest of the wiring work is finished.
Actually the stock off 2J03 (1757 Buxton - Bolton) has been going back to Newton Heath as 5J03 since 22/5/17. It's due to start stabling at Bolton again from 11/9/17 when 2J91 re-starts. Of course, for last week and this 2J03 has been operating Buxton to Oxford Road only.
Later it's to 2J03/5E82 from 11/12/17 when 2J91 is accelerated to Class 319 timings (but probably won't go 319 at that stage).
I'd been quite oblivious to the fact that a dmu set had been continuing to stable at Bolton. The last time I had been conscious of it happening was when it was starting the next day as 3E70, 0602 Bolton to Stalybridge, a situation which apparently finished last December. Even then, I couldn't understand why a train was needing to stable at Bolton. Is stabling space really at such a premium? There seem to be far more appropriate stabling places with space available.
It's to do 1957 Victoria - Huddersfield and 2202 return.
If that were the situation it would be showing on 'Open Rail' already. In any case, it would never happen, i.e. a train load of passengers booted off an electric and on to a diesel - although it could be said that that's what happened when the Liverpool to Blackpool North service was split at Preston, but I'm sure we were talking much smaller numbers of passengers.
4 x 170s arriving in Feb won't give them much time to train crews and obtain route clearance, unless they can loan a 170 off any operator before then.
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