Northern Saturday strikes - the aftermath

[yorksrob]

Probably, but would need two guards on every train (which is starting to happen) unless using 150/2s. However there's a rolling programme to lengthen platforms across the North by November 2019. Many seem to be restoration of existing platforms where parts were taken out of normal use in the days of railway decline, so not expensive work.

That's good news anyway. It will be money well spent.

 

[lord rathmore]

All long term strikes have a legacy effect on a business. Major stoppages in the 1950s added to the decline of passenger and freight numbers that made Beeching inevitable. I use public transport whenever it's an option but industrial disputes are its achilles heel.

 

[Llama]

It is quite possible that the strikes have had a lesser effect on reducing passenger numbers than the disruption which began last spring and to a lesser extent the chronic short forming which is still an issue.

If there is a strike people can make an informed decision, but if the service is generally unreliable and people are at a perceived risk of being left stranded then they won't use the train.

The constant engineering work resulting in rail replacement buses via Bolton and Chorley in recent years, and also just the fact that more stations are barriered now up til end of service so there is less chance of a free ride for people going out/coming home from nights out in Manchester, will also have an effect.

There are people who will have better knowledge than me on the reasons why people are staying away but what is absolutely obvious is that passenger numbers, certainly in the evenings, are way down on what they were five years ago. Stations which used to be moderately busy even on weekday evenings are dead now.

 

[Killingworth]

Intending passengers, without a preoccupation with trains and the intricacies of their history and operation, want to get from A to B as quickly and comfortably as possible, but with a certainty of arrival at a guaranteed time. And to get back in similar fashion.

Part of that journey will start with a shorter journey to join a train, and a wait for it to arrive - often on a bleak platform with.poor weather protection. At the station nearest the ultimate destination a further short journey is required. Sometimes there may be a rail change or changes on further draughty platforms. An outward journey may fit needs well, but a return may be impractical or inconvenient thanks to timetabling and without any delays or cancellations.

It matters little whether any disruption is due to engineering work, a strike, trespassers near the line, broken down train, points failure, wires down, timetable chaos, crew sickness, delayed delivery of new trains or leaves on the line. The train was not there when needed and I missed my vital appointment. I decide to use an alternative method of transport next time.

In one case in my career I was due to chair a meeting near Euston Station, my train was delayed by an incident near Wakefield, my taxi from St Pancras got lost in traffic, and I arrived breathless to find my deputy had engineered a very successful coup prior to my delayed arrival. On that day my love for railways was very sorely tested.

There really is no practical alternative to rail for longer distance journeys, especially to London, but for many there is. Every delayed journey, whatever the reason, potentially loses many future journeys by train. Most rail passengers drive nice cars, just look at station car parks and the roadsides near all busy stations. A lot must have been used as rail substitutes during the recent Brighton line blockade when bus replacements were very lightly used.

 

[Ianno87]

Travelled Manchester Victoria to Lostock earlier. Calling it 'dead' would be an understatement. The foul weather today won't help, of course.

 

[Carlisle]

I think any fall off in shoppers is probably more to do with the policies of this daft government than any strike.

Whichever government happens to be in power, it’s soon going to need to come up with fairly radical new solutions to ensure major online sellers contribute their fair share of taxes etc towards the economy otherwise it won’t be long before they’ll be very few high streets left for shoppers to visit by train or for councils & private operators to continuously increase parking & penalty charges on .

 

[Gems]

Whichever government happens to be in power, it’s soon going to need to come up with fairly radical new solutions to ensure major online sellers contribute their fair share of taxes etc towards the economy otherwise it won’t be long before they’ll be very few high streets left for shoppers to visit by train or for councils & private operators to continuously increase parking & penalty charges on .

I absolutely agree. I think we have seen a steady decline over several years to be honest. The whole concept of leisure travel need to be thought about.

 

[muz379]

It is quite possible that the strikes have had a lesser effect on reducing passenger numbers than the disruption which began last spring and to a lesser extent the chronic short forming which is still an issue.

If there is a strike people can make an informed decision, but if the service is generally unreliable and people are at a perceived risk of being left stranded then they won't use the train.

The constant engineering work resulting in rail replacement buses via Bolton and Chorley in recent years, and also just the fact that more stations are barriered now up til end of service so there is less chance of a free ride for people going out/coming home from nights out in Manchester, will also have an effect.

There are people who will have better knowledge than me on the reasons why people are staying away but what is absolutely obvious is that passenger numbers, certainly in the evenings, are way down on what they were five years ago. Stations which used to be moderately busy even on weekday evenings are dead now.

I think there is some logic in that and certainly reflects the views of some of the passengers I have spoken to . If you dont know what train is going to run or be severely delayed until you turn up at the station then its not a very attractive prospect especially if you are relying on the thing to get you to work , whereas at least with a strike you always get at least 2 weeks notice .

Travelled Manchester Victoria to Lostock earlier. Calling it 'dead' would be an understatement. The foul weather today won't help, of course.

On one of the buckshaw parkways ?

To be fair they are never usually that busy apart from peak time even on weekdays anyway , especially given most if not all of them run as 4 cars now .

 

[bunnahabhain]

Platform lengthening is needed at Grindleford, Bamford and Hathersage to allow that. Its due by November when Pacers should have gone. At present even a 150 and 142 can't stop at Hathersage westbound unless the rear unit is locked out. 2 x 150s do occasionally run.

From memory Grindleford and Hope have the length but need parts being brought back into use. Hathersage needs more work.

That has now been removed from the sectional appendix (or will be removed at the next update). It was written in to account for pairs of Class 101s or 142s working the route and was subsequently applied to workings such as 1L20 which runs as a 4 car Class 158 which traditionally had the rear unit locked out of use. I'm guessing that's not filtered out to Piccadilly yet? It certainly raised lengthy, repeated and extensive discussions at Nottingham!

 

[Ianno87]

On one of the buckshaw parkways ?

To be fair they are never usually that busy apart from peak time even on weekdays anyway , especially given most if not all of them run as 4 cars now .

Yes, although the Manchestee-bound loadings weren't hugely impressible - Bolton atation was deadly quiet, whilst the Buckshaw-Victoria going the otherway at Lostock (4 car 319) can't have beem more thana quarter or so loaded.

 

[LowLevel]

One side effect of the Northern trains running again is the impact on performance on the Hope Valley on faster services that they cause - take the 1414 Sheffield to Manchester Piccadilly today. Left Sheffield 13 late owing to following a late TPE on it's way out - fair enough.

That delayed the 1440 Sheffield to Liverpool firstly on it's way into the station as it took the single line at Dore and again as it ground it's way along the Valley steadily losing time and arriving at New Mills Central 23 minutes late having caused 15 minutes delay to the class 1 train behind it.

These overcrowded 142s really are a nightmare but the extended dwells would suggest passenger figures have recovered pretty well.

It'll be nice when they're gone - the loss in running when a 142 runs these services is marked.

 

[Starmill]

On one of the buckshaw parkways ?

To be fair they are never usually that busy apart from peak time even on weekdays anyway , especially given most if not all of them run as 4 cars now

They are dead because the franchise agreement and basic logic specifies they should go to Preston, which should never have been undone. Almost no through trains between Blackrod / Adlington and Preston is crackers. Thankfully it is soon to be restored.

 

[Killingworth]

One side effect of the Northern trains running again is the impact on performance on the Hope Valley on faster services that they cause - take the 1414 Sheffield to Manchester Piccadilly today. Left Sheffield 13 late owing to following a late TPE on it's way out - fair enough.

That delayed the 1440 Sheffield to Liverpool firstly on it's way into the station as it took the single line at Dore and again as it ground it's way along the Valley steadily losing time and arriving at New Mills Central 23 minutes late having caused 15 minutes delay to the class 1 train behind it.

These overcrowded 142s really are a nightmare but the extended dwells would suggest passenger figures have recovered pretty well.

It'll be nice when they're gone - the loss in running when a 142 runs these services is marked.

It seems numbers must be recovering very well! Recently I added a picture at Dore of the first Saturday 10.14 ex-Sheffield, that Pacer so full one young man and his son travelling from Sheffield to Grindleford opted to leave at that point due to the crush.

When the strike was on the 130 place car park was all but deserted at Dore, those cars mostly on early days out by TPE and East Midlands to Manchester, or long stays (Manchester Airport free long stay abuse - another story).

Today there were only about 20 spaces left at mid-day.

Why they can't run a double Pacer is, of course, a mystery only Northern can explain.

Since December the Northern Sheffield-Manchester route has achieved better timekeeping statistics than TPE and East Midlands. That's despite many Northern trains being held in the Heeley loop to allow late running TPE westbound services to overtake. Cramming backpacks and bikes into already overcrowded Pacers is a nightmare for crews trying to keep in touch with any semblance of the timetable!

The Northern 14.14 went out at 14.26 because it had been 17 minutes late coming in after starting from Piccadilly 8 minutes late and being further delayed at almost every stop. Can't blame TPE for that one. Despite losing more time and being 24 minutes late at Marple it was only 12 minutes late back into Piccadilly.

Sometimes the Northern stopping service can be overcrowded if a TPE or East Midlands service has been short formed or cancelled. That doesn't seem to be the case here? Events in Manchester may also attract extra numbers but nothing obvious today.

Of course we must bear in mind that Britain's favourite spot to start a walk is Edale in the Peak District, according to the Ordnance Survey (OS), see; https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47523640 There is no bus service and access by car is a tortuous journey.

I was in the pub next door to the station earlier this month. They reckon they probably lost about 75% of their Saturday trade during the strike and had to reduce their staff hours accordingly, maybe taking a hit of over £10,000.

 

[Starmill]

Sometimes the Northern stopping service can be overcrowded if a TPE or East Midlands service has been short formed or cancelled. That doesn't seem to be the case here? Events in Manchester may also attract extra numbers but nothing obvious today.

Sales of AP Northern Only advance tickets, which haven't been available for very long, may have contributed to end-to-end loadings.

This is in addition to the Northern Only off peak tickets which work so well only because of the rip-off fares to use TransPennine Express / East Midlands Trains following this 11% price rise last year.