Northern sealing off one carriage; TPE's covid seating policy

Howardh

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Yesterday returning from Windermere with Northern, the train (not sure if it was three or four carriage) had the rear one taped off and not for use. Therefore all the passengers, and virtually every seat was taken with people standing, were crammed into the remaining part of the train. Surely that's not good for distancing? Can't think of any good reason to tape off a whole carriage like that, all I can think of it gives the guard free access to a set of doors?
Also on TPE Preston northwards, virtually every seat was ticketed red - do not use - leaving about 10 seats available for everyone, meaning people congrgating at the doors. In fact a group summarily disobayed the seat signs and sat down anyway. When the train sets off, even if the guard went down the carriage and saw them, what could he do??
This is all becoming a bit ridiculous now and these "restrictions" IMO are doing more harm than good.
 
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Andyh82

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Did the guard ‘give a good reason’?

Someone many have ‘soiled’ the unit? Depending on the unit the aircon may have been not working? Was it definitely Covid related?
 

bengley

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On Northern's new units the door controls are staggered across the coach, so the guard has to access both doorways in the rear coach.
 

Howardh

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Did the guard ‘give a good reason’?

Someone many have ‘soiled’ the unit? Depending on the unit the aircon may have been not working? Was it definitely Covid related?
This isn't the first time one's been sealed off, I've seen plenty before but on quieter trains which was less of an issue, so I suspect none of the above. And I don't think the air-con worked throughout the train anyway.
 

Howardh

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On Northern's new units the door controls are staggered across the coach, so the guard has to access both doorways in the rear coach.
It's the only thing I can think of, accessing the second set of doors rather than the ones next to the cab. But if s/he needs to distance, then why not just take out the seats next to the aisle so at least (the train was 2x3) 3/5ths of the seats can be used?
 

Envy123

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I was on a London bus yesterday and people ignored the stickers to not sit on certain seats. And social distancing wasn’t happening either.

It’s possible to do social distancing on, say, Class 700’s, especially the 12 coach units. But shorter trains and buses - I don’t see much of a possibility to do that.
 

Crossover

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The TPE units have had the red/green seat labels for quite some time and IMO it’s getting a bit old hat now, particularly as even Northern have removed their ‘banners’ from the seats

When I travelled on a Nova 3 the other week I sat in a ‘green’ seat though then realised there was a group of 4 sat at the next table ahead. On balance I decided to stay put as I was in one of the few ‘green’ seats that had a window rather than a pillar, we were all wearing masks and two of the group ahead had their back to me and the other two were quite a long way away

Talking of Nova 3’s, they also have about 1/3 of the FC carriage taped off, presumably also to give the guard room to work (although they also have to wander the train due to short platforms anyway)
 

bengley

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The TPE units have had the red/green seat labels for quite some time and IMO it’s getting a bit old hat now, particularly as even Northern have removed their ‘banners’ from the seats

When I travelled on a Nova 3 the other week I sat in a ‘green’ seat though then realised there was a group of 4 sat at the next table ahead. On balance I decided to stay put as I was in one of the few ‘green’ seats that had a window rather than a pillar, we were all wearing masks and two of the group ahead had their back to me and the other two were quite a long way away

Talking of Nova 3’s, they also have about 1/3 of the FC carriage taped off, presumably also to give the guard room to work (although they also have to wander the train due to short platforms anyway)
The first class area taped off is a staff travel area.
 

bengley

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It's the only thing I can think of, accessing the second set of doors rather than the ones next to the cab. But if s/he needs to distance, then why not just take out the seats next to the aisle so at least (the train was 2x3) 3/5ths of the seats can be used?
It's standard practice, the guard didn't do anything unusual.
 

Seehof

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Saw a TPE Airport train leave York today with empty “red” seats and people congregating and blocking doors for alighting and boarding passengers! Crazy especially as many had suitcases and just stood in the doorway. The railway has gone mad everywhere!
 

infobleep

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Last Saturday I was in Eastbourne. The train to London was in the platform awaiting more coaches to attach.

It was locked out of use, save someone in the drivers area waiting to do the attachment. People were on the platform waiting for the doors to open.

I decided to walk down, as the adjoining coaches might be quite, once they arrive.

Once the adjoining portions came and the people got off,then all the people waiting on the platform beside the doors of the back portion descended down the platform to the front portion, as the doors still hadn't been opened

I decided it was too many people and walked along the platform to the back and sat down once the doors opened.

Why couldn't they just open the back doors sooner I don't know.
 

northernchris

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Yesterday returning from Windermere with Northern, the train (not sure if it was three or four carriage) had the rear one taped off and not for use. Therefore all the passengers, and virtually every seat was taken with people standing, were crammed into the remaining part of the train. Surely that's not good for distancing? Can't think of any good reason to tape off a whole carriage like that, all I can think of it gives the guard free access to a set of doors?
This happened on a service I was on a couple of weeks ago. 2 x 2 car 195s joined together with the rear carriage solely for the use of the conductor. The rest of the train was crowded, with passengers standing in the doorways. What I can't understand is why this is sometimes the case and sometimes it isn't, I've been on a service since which was the same formation and all 4 carriages were available for passengers
 

CaptainHaddock

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This happened on a service I was on a couple of weeks ago. 2 x 2 car 195s joined together with the rear carriage solely for the use of the conductor. The rest of the train was crowded, with passengers standing in the doorways. What I can't understand is why this is sometimes the case and sometimes it isn't, I've been on a service since which was the same formation and all 4 carriages were available for passengers
I was on a 2-car 195 this evening from Sheffield to Leeds and the guard for some reason was doing the doors from one of the centre doors rather than the back of the train. Some of Northern's unwelcome "not in use" lycra seat labels had been placed on the seats by the doors but most people, myself included, ignored them. Surely it can't be difficult to reprogram the door controls so they can be operated from the back cab, as on a 150?
 

Crossover

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I was on a 2-car 195 this evening from Sheffield to Leeds and the guard for some reason was doing the doors from one of the centre doors rather than the back of the train. Some of Northern's unwelcome "not in use" lycra seat labels had been placed on the seats by the doors but most people, myself included, ignored them. Surely it can't be difficult to reprogram the door controls so they can be operated from the back cab, as on a 150?
As I understand it, guards cannot work the trains from the back cab. Whether there are controls there I'm not sure but there is certainly rules that they must be dispatched from the saloon
 

setdown

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As I understand it, guards cannot work the trains from the back cab. Whether there are controls there I'm not sure but there is certainly rules that they must be dispatched from the saloon
For a fixed and agreed duration, how about guards in the rear cab with driver opening/closing based on the guard’s prompts, whether that be buzzers/flags/flashlights. Win win isn’t it? Guard is protected safely in the rear cab, and more space for passengers to distance. Obviously you’d need cast-iron agreements between company and unions with defined dates, but we do live in weird times!
 

Bletchleyite

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For a fixed and agreed duration, how about guards in the rear cab with driver opening/closing based on the guard’s prompts, whether that be buzzers/flags/flashlights. Win win isn’t it? Guard is protected safely in the rear cab, and more space for passengers to distance. Obviously you’d need cast-iron agreements between company and unions with defined dates, but we do live in weird times!
No chance :)
 

Crossover

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For a fixed and agreed duration, how about guards in the rear cab with driver opening/closing based on the guard’s prompts, whether that be buzzers/flags/flashlights. Win win isn’t it? Guard is protected safely in the rear cab, and more space for passengers to distance. Obviously you’d need cast-iron agreements between company and unions with defined dates, but we do live in weird times!
More chance of hell freezing over, I reckon!
 

yorkie

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I think TPE seating is still at 2m distancing .
Yes, TPE are about 5 weeks behind LNER in this respect, however I do believe this is changing or has already changed to 1m. It's either changed this weekend, or tomorrow.

I was on a TPE train last Friday, where warnings were made of BTP boarding trains to issue fines, saying 2 metre distancing was a "rule" that must be observed " at all times" and the Guard also said they were in the "front portion of the rear train". There was, as you'd expect, no visible staff presence.

There was a member of off duty train crew travelling as a passenger in the front part of the train; when someone approached he grunted "train crew!". Hopefully one day someone will produce a staff pass in response.

My next train was a Northern train, which of course had no visible staff presence, but not only that, no announcements either! I didn't see any evidence of any taped off areas on this train, but I didn't walk through the rear coach, going straight for the quieter front coach. The lack of even saying which station we're at isn't really acceptable, but to be honest a wall of silence is preferable to the harsh warnings given out by the TPE Guard on the previous train.
 

northernchris

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Yes, TPE are about 5 weeks behind LNER in this respect, however I do believe this is changing or has already changed to 1m. It's either changed this weekend, or tomorrow.

I was on a TPE train last Friday, where warnings were made of BTP boarding trains to issue fines, saying 2 metre distancing was a "rule" that must be observed " at all times" and the Guard also said they were in the "front portion of the rear train". There was, as you'd expect, no visible staff presence.

There was a member of off duty train crew travelling as a passenger in the front part of the train; when someone approached he grunted "train crew!". Hopefully one day someone will produce a staff pass in response.

My next train was a Northern train, which of course had no visible staff presence, but not only that, no announcements either! I didn't see any evidence of any taped off areas on this train, but I didn't walk through the rear coach, going straight for the quieter front coach. The lack of even saying which station we're at isn't really acceptable, but to be honest a wall of silence is preferable to the harsh warnings given out by the TPE Guard on the previous train.
I used 2 TPE trains on the same day last week, and on the first the conductor was announcing it was window seats only and anyone found to be in an aisle seat would be asked to leave at the next station. On the return journey the conductor stated if travelling in a group it was fine to sit together but to be mindful of other passengers. Northern are just as inconsistent with either entire carriages for crew use only to all seats available for passengers - how hard can it be for the operators to adopt a standard policy across their services?
 

bramling

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I used 2 TPE trains on the same day last week, and on the first the conductor was announcing it was window seats only and anyone found to be in an aisle seat would be asked to leave at the next station. On the return journey the conductor stated if travelling in a group it was fine to sit together but to be mindful of other passengers. Northern are just as inconsistent with either entire carriages for crew use only to all seats available for passengers - how hard can it be for the operators to adopt a standard policy across their services?
The answer is it might actually be quite hard, as like society in general there’s a cross-section if different views amongst staff, and no doubt some who have recently returned may well be more tetchy than those who have worked right through.

Getting a consistent policy which reconciles all this, and when you’re in a position of being desperately short of staff (which seems to have been the case at some TOCs like Northern even before Covid was an issue) it’s a tightrope-walk to try and keep as many staff as possible happy.

Same with masks. Mandate staff to wear them and some will kick off, don’t mandate staff to wear them and others will kick off. If you upset the former group too much, especially bearing in mind many of these will be ones who have worked right through, you could end up with big problems. I’ve certainly made it extremely crystal clear that masks are a red-line for me, others naturally have their own red lines.
 

greyman42

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Saw a TPE Airport train leave York today with empty “red” seats and people congregating and blocking doors for alighting and boarding passengers! Crazy especially as many had suitcases and just stood in the doorway. The railway has gone mad everywhere!
You would of thought that people would just ignore the red tickets and sit down. I certainly would.
 

Huntergreed

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TPE have removed all their red and green seat labels today, and are simply advising passengers to distance where possible, a positive move in my opinion.
 

Peter Mugridge

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Over the past few days I've used a lot of TPE services and people were ignoring the red labels anyway.

there was one ( 5 car ) service which was full and standing five minutes before departure on Friday...
 

Crossover

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TPE have removed all their red and green seat labels today, and are simply advising passengers to distance where possible, a positive move in my opinion.
I’d heard (though it was on the grapevine) that they’d introduced compulsory reservations. I hope it isn’t the case as, in some areas, they run Northern-esque all shacks stoppers and its hard enough to get a ticket at a station without the worry of doing battle for anything else!
 

johntea

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I don't actually think I've heard any automated messages surrounding Covid-19 on TPE, I've certainly heard plenty enough on Northern!
 

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