Northern services comprised of CAF allocated for Double Units

Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Llama

Established Member
Joined
29 Apr 2014
Messages
1,694
Very true. I have witnessed it.
CAF's quality control must be really bad if there are some slightly smaller versions of 331s about where seven cars is somehow 'easily' smaller than 162 metres in length, which is the length of the longest platform at Oxford Rd.
 

Mathew S

Established Member
Joined
7 Aug 2017
Messages
2,111
CAF's quality control must be really bad if there are some slightly smaller versions of 331s about where seven cars is somehow 'easily' smaller than 162 metres in length, which is the length of the longest platform at Oxford Rd.
I'm pretty sure I've seen a 7-car 331 formation in platform 3 at Oxford Road. It didn't fit, easily or otherwise. The rear door was off the platform.
 

Purple Orange

Member
Joined
26 Dec 2019
Messages
535
Location
Wilmslow
CAF's quality control must be really bad if there are some slightly smaller versions of 331s about where seven cars is somehow 'easily' smaller than 162 metres in length, which is the length of the longest platform at Oxford Rd.
I saw a 7 car 331, what’s more to say?
 

Llama

Established Member
Joined
29 Apr 2014
Messages
1,694
No doubt you did, but not accommodated in a platform at Oxford Rd.

Have a look on Google maps in satellite view. There's a four car Northern 156 rake in platform 4 at Oxford Rd. It can clearly be seen that another three cars the same wouldn't fit. A seven car 331 raft would be four metres longer than a seven car 156 rake.
 

Purple Orange

Member
Joined
26 Dec 2019
Messages
535
Location
Wilmslow
No doubt you did, but not accommodated in a platform at Oxford Rd.

Have a look on Google maps in satellite view. There's a four car Northern 156 rake in platform 4 at Oxford Rd. It can clearly be seen that another three cars the same wouldn't fit. A seven car 331 raft would be four metres longer than a seven car 156 rake.
It was definitely at Oxford Road station. That I can be completely sure of.
 

Bovverboy

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2013
Messages
1,829
A 7-car 331 would easily fit in P2/P3/P4 at Oxford Road.
Very true. I have witnessed it.
If you check back up thread you'll see that I subsequently acknowledged that a 7-car 331 would definitely not fit in any of the platforms at Oxford Road, that is with all the passenger doors adjacent to the platform. Whether or not that would mean that passengers couldn't be allowed to use a door which was itself adjacent to the platform is another matter.
I saw a 7 car 331, what’s more to say?
No doubt you did, but not accommodated in a platform at Oxford Rd.

Have a look on Google maps in satellite view. There's a four car Northern 156 rake in platform 4 at Oxford Rd. It can clearly be seen that another three cars the same wouldn't fit. A seven car 331 raft would be four metres longer than a seven car 156 rake.
According to the figures I have here, a 156 is 23.03m per carriage, or 161.21m per 7-car set, if there were such a thing. So by your own figure for the length of P4 at Oxford Road, a 7-car 156 should fit.
 

Jamesrob637

Established Member
Joined
12 Aug 2016
Messages
1,844
Are all Monday-Saturday Blackpool North to Airport and Hazel Grove services booked for double 331s now, even if the reality is almost the contrary?
 

Jamesrob637

Established Member
Joined
12 Aug 2016
Messages
1,844
I saw a 2 x 3-car formation at Picc P13 at about 1510 this afternoon if that's of any help? Surprised to see a South East style long train in the North!
Wrong end of the hour for Blackpool to Hazel Grove however Blackpool to Airport is usually in at quarter past the hour so could've been that? In that case very useful, thank you.
 

Llama

Established Member
Joined
29 Apr 2014
Messages
1,694
Hint for anyone on the 1734 Piccadilly-Blackpool (also calls Oxford Rd, Deansgate and Salford Crescent) - head to the back coach, you'll get a seat if not more breathing space. The passenger counting equipment on the 331s shows quite precise numbers. Last few times I've worked the above train by the time it's called at the above stations there have been ~100 passengers in each of the front four coaches, about 60 in the fifth and only about 40 in the rear one.
 

Jamesrob637

Established Member
Joined
12 Aug 2016
Messages
1,844
So I will start to compile a Monday to Friday list:

Double 195:

06:13 Liverpool Lime Street to Wilmslow (avoiding Manchester Airport) - 6-car
07:48 Wilmslow to Liverpool Lime Street (avoiding Manchester Airport) - 6-car
I think it then leaves 3 behind at Liverpool until:
15:16 Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport - 6-car
16:48 Manchester Airport to Liverpool Lime Street - 6-car
18:16 Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport - 6-car
Don't think it needs a double from there on as evening peak is well over so one unit gets left behind at the Airport and runs ECS to Newton Heath.

Double 331:

All hours at around 23 past Blackpool North to Hazel Grove with the possible exception of the last service of the day - 6-car
All hours at around 02 past Hazel Grove to Blackpool North again with the possible exception of the last service of the day - 6-car
All hours at around 56 past Blackpool North to Manchester Airport with the possible exception of the last service of the day - 6-car
All hours at around 42 past Manchester Airport to Blackpool North again with the possible exception of the last service of the day - 6-car

I will add to this as time goes on. In addition, being Northern, never take any of this as gospel either!
 
Last edited:

Jamesrob637

Established Member
Joined
12 Aug 2016
Messages
1,844
According to another thread about a broken down train at Stockport on Wednesday, 12:03 Hazel Grove to Blackpool North is not booked for a double. Or at least not on Wednesdays. I guess being lunchtime it'd be relatively quiet then anyway. Is the return 14:27 Blackpool North to Hazel Grove a double though, as homeward-bound commuter numbers are picking up by the time it reaches Manchester?
 

Llama

Established Member
Joined
29 Apr 2014
Messages
1,694
Yes the 1203 from Hazel Grove on arrival at Blackpool North attaches to another 331 which runs to Hazel Grove at 1427, back from Hazel Grove to Blackpool at 1703 and then to Manchester Airport at 1958. It splits at the Airport with one unit forming the 2143 back to Blackpool and the other I think does the 2234 to Blackpool.
 

Jamesrob637

Established Member
Joined
12 Aug 2016
Messages
1,844
I was in Preston last Saturday and a Liverpool to Blackpool North arrived which Journey Check said "Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 7"

7-car to Blackpool in late-winter?! I can understand it in summer, but on the 29th of February? Or was it a "February Fools" from Northern given it was their last day of operation?
 

Andy Pacer

Member
Joined
11 Jul 2017
Messages
709
This is was over a month ago in January!
Apologies for adding to the discussion!
As the thread is for identifying double units, surely commenting on those that may no longer be doubles is worthy of note. But clearly I've interrupted.
 
Last edited:

BenW390Fan

Member
Joined
25 Jul 2018
Messages
193
Location
Liverpool
Apologies for adding to the discussion!
As the thread is for identifying double units, surely commenting on those that may no longer be doubles is worthy of note. But clearly I've interrupted.
I wasn't intending on stopping you from posting, I was stating that it was it was in January so it will've likely changed
 

Whisky Papa

Member
Joined
8 Aug 2019
Messages
145
I've mentioned it elsewhere, but it doesn't seem to have been reported on this thread: there is a booked 2x195/0 diagram on the Leeds - Chester circuit. 1E66 is the trip I usually spot, 1420 CTR-LDS, but I haven't traced out the rest of the diagram.
 

Tractor37

Member
Joined
23 May 2017
Messages
138
I've mentioned it elsewhere, but it doesn't seem to have been reported on this thread: there is a booked 2x195/0 diagram on the Leeds - Chester circuit. 1E66 is the trip I usually spot, 1420 CTR-LDS, but I haven't traced out the rest of the diagram.
Prior to that working from Chester. The double 195/0 diagram is:-

2E39 06.32 Manchester Victoria - Leeds
1J07 08.12 Leeds - Manchester Victoria
1J06 09.56 Manchester Victoria - Leeds
1D76 11.42 Leeds - Chester
 

Jamesrob637

Established Member
Joined
12 Aug 2016
Messages
1,844
How are double 195s and 331s doing under the emergency timetable? Blackpool North to Manchester Airport is cancelled: is Blackpool North to Hazel Grove still 6-car? I know not all BPN-HAZ are booked 6 (see upthread) but are they all currently 6 to cover the lack of BPN-MIA?
 

Llama

Established Member
Joined
29 Apr 2014
Messages
1,694
The first one from Hazel Grove (06.03, 2N60) to Blackpool is still booked one 331. Suspect that comes from Stockport CS at start of day.
 

Jamesrob637

Established Member
Joined
12 Aug 2016
Messages
1,844
The first one from Hazel Grove (06.03, 2N60) to Blackpool is still booked one 331. Suspect that comes from Stockport CS at start of day.
That may just get away with 3 at that time of the day especially being outside of London. Does it become 6 thereafter?
 

1D53

Established Member
Joined
2 Apr 2006
Messages
2,571
Most of the Calder Valley and some of the Blackpool are 2x2 195s now, the rest being 3 cars
 

Top