Northern Steam services on the Settle and Carlisle

[trainmananthon]

Well, now I've seen it announced online I think I'm finally safe to share...

Next month, normal service trains on the S&C will be operated by A1 'Tornado' for three consecutive days. Something to definitely look out for!

http://www.steamrailway.co.uk/steamnews/2017/1/13/exclusive-steam-to-run-sc-timetabled-trains

Trains hauled by ‘A1’ class ‘Pacific’*Tornadowill replace DMUs on timetabled services over the Settle & Carlisle (S&C) route next month.

'A1' No. 60163*Tornado*will be the locomotive taking charge of next month's S&C 'Plandampf'. STEVE DONALD

No. 60163, completed in 2008, will run Northern passenger trains over the S&C between Skipton and Appleby on three consecutive days.

The first timetabled ordinary main line passenger steam trains to run in England for 50 years are the result of a pioneering modern and heritage industry alliance, formed to help revive the economic fortunes of the beleaguered S&C as well as the towns and villages that it serves. The railway, which was opened in 1875, was severed by a major landslip last February and has been in limbo ever since.*

This collaborative alliance comprises Northern, Network Rail, DB Cargo, the A1 Steam Locomotive Trust and Friends of the S&C, together with*RAIL*and*Steam Railwayfrom the Bauer Media magazine portfolio, who came up with the proposal two years ago.

The historic community trains are being promoted under the banner ‘I LOVE S&C’.

RAIL*Managing Editor Nigel Harris said: “Former*Steam Railway*Editor Tony Streeter and I first suggested this to Northern MD Alex Hynes a couple of years ago, but with the old franchise in its last days, it just wasn’t possible to pull it all together. Severance of the S&C gave us the opportunity......

·******For more on this EXCLUSIVE story, readRAIL*818, on sale January 18.*

Anthony

 

[gnolife]

EXCLUSIVE: STEAM TO RUN S&C TIMETABLED TRAINS

The traditional DMU paths on February 14-16 that will be surrendered to steam are the 10.45am ex-Skipton and 15.07pm ex-Appleby. These will be supplemented by morning and evening extras, running in reverse order. Tickets bought in advance or from National Rail ticket offices will be permissible for travel. More details and an official event launch to follow.

Sent from my 4009X using Tapatalk

10:45 from Skipton and 15:07 from Appleby bearing little resemblance to anything in the timetable. I can only assume that it refers to the 10:26 from Skipton and the 14:47 from Appleby.

Also, what does it mean, "These will be supplemented by morning and evening extras, running in reverse order" - that's a turn of phrase that I can't recall having heard before?

 

[trainmananthon]

10:45 from Skipton and 15:07 from Appleby bearing little resemblance to anything in the timetable. I can only assume that it refers to the 10:26 from Skipton and the 14:47 from Appleby.

Also, what does it mean, "These will be supplemented by morning and evening extras, running in reverse order" - that's a turn of phrase that I can't recall having heard before?

Here is the rough timetable of it. It would appear to start its day in Appleby, perhaps replacing the 0935 to Leeds - then works down to Skipton, back up to Appleby replacing the 0947 express which will connect with it at Skipton, then replacing the 1543 to Leeds as far as Skipton and then finally it looks to be an extra service train back to Appleby.

0830 Appleby-Skipton
Appleby 0830
Kirkby Stephen 0845-0846
Garsdale 0901-0903
Horton in Ribblesdale 0927-0929
Settle 0943-0945
Skipton 1009

1045 Skipton-Appleby (connects with 0947 from Leeds, runs in re-timed path)
Skipton 1045
Settle 1109-1112
Kirkby Stephen 1200-1201
Appleby 1216

1507 Appleby-Skipton
Appleby 1507
Kirkby Stephen 1522-1523
Settle 1613-1615
Skipton 1640

1710 Skipton-Appleby
Skipton 1710
Settle 1734-1737
Kirkby Stephen 1825-1826
Appleby 1841

These will be confirmed closer to the time but for now this is the rough times.

Anthony

 

[70014IronDuke]

I was done!

And I want my £15-15/- back, with 49 years of interest!


All rather fascinating, but it raises questions:

a) unless i've missed something, it will have to operate tender first in one direction? Surely there will be a speed restriction on this, won't there?

b) who's paying the bill for all this? I'm sure it will raise interest in the line, and get people out there who would otherwise not go, but there is a price to it all. The A1 will gobble up fuel and water, and there will surely be an inspector in the cab. Are the A1 people providing the loco at knock-down prices as part of the deal?

 

[infobleep]

This is great.

Out of interest, where the steam trains run 1988, to celebrate 150 years of the railways there, replacements of regular services or additional ones? The articles I've read say they were for commuter services but I don't know if they replaced existing services or were additional services.

 

[30907]

This is great.

Out of interest, where the steam trains run 1988, to celebrate 150 years of the railways there, replacements of regular services or additional ones? The articles I've read say they were for commuter services but I don't know if they replaced existing services or were additional services.

Where were they? Woking rings a bell and is the right year.

 

[trainmananthon]

I've just been told that the service will have 7 coaches and hopefully an on-train guide like myself onboard in each coach talking about sights along the route

 

[Cowley]

Interesting. A couple of questions if anyone knows the answers.
Would it be steam in both directions or just one direction with a diesel attached to the rear working the return leg? I can't really work it out from what's been said.
Also is there likely to be a back up locomotive just in case of any problems?

 

[507021]

This is a fantastic opportunity, I'll be making sure I get a ride on it.

 

[alexl92]

Interesting. A couple of questions if anyone knows the answers.
Would it be steam in both directions or just one direction with a diesel attached to the rear working the return leg? I can't really work it out from what's been said.
Also is there likely to be a back up locomotive just in case of any problems?

Both questions I was going to ask. I imagine they'll have to have something on standby in case of issues?

 

[robbeale]

I went to my local station to reserve a seat on board but was told that because it's a Northern service you can't reserve seats. Does anyone have any idea how it will work, because if it's a free for all it'll be standing room only!

 

[Trainfan344]

I went to my local station to reserve a seat on board but was told that because it's a Northern service you can't reserve seats. Does anyone have any idea how it will work, because if it's a free for all it'll be standing room only!

There was a post on facebook stating more details including reservations will be released closer to the time.

 

[trainmananthon]

Interesting. A couple of questions if anyone knows the answers.
Would it be steam in both directions or just one direction with a diesel attached to the rear working the return leg? I can't really work it out from what's been said.
Also is there likely to be a back up locomotive just in case of any problems?

Don't quote me on this but I'm assuming it'll be steam both directions. There is expected to be a 67 on the rear to provide ETH and for drawback purposes but I'm afraid that's all I know for now

Anthony

 

[Peter Mugridge]

This is great.
I've read say they were for commuter services but I don't know if they replaced existing services or were additional services.

Hybrid - they were timetabled additionals but did require pre-booking with a special ticket being issued.

 

[yorksrob]

Good idea, although is there a reason why it's in the middle of the week ?

 

[infobleep]

Where were they? Woking rings a bell and is the right year.

I don't know off hand. Was in a book but I can't remember which one.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Hybrid - they were timetabled additionals but did require pre-booking with a special ticket being issued.

Thanks for that. Interesting. I never thought I'd see a timetabled steam service using a standard ticket come back. Very tempted to travel up there.

Peesonally it wouldn't bother me if I had to stand as it would be like commuting. I image there were times when people had to stand on steam services over 50 years ago. I'm sure that's nothing new.

 

[Deepgreen]

Interesting. Firstly, if the trains are re-timed and only covering a section of the full normal route, I would question the claim that they are normal service trains. Secondly, does anyone know what and how many coaches will be used?

Sounds like an interesting exercise and one that's sure to increase ridership for at least three days.

 

[sprinterguy]

Secondly, does anyone know what and how many coaches will be used?

Seven coaches, according to post 8 on the first page of this thread:

I've just been told that the service will have 7 coaches and hopefully an on-train guide like myself onboard in each coach talking about sights along the route

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Interesting. Firstly, if the trains are re-timed and only covering a section of the full normal route, I would question the claim that they are normal service trains.

Even if you do accept that claim (and, like you, I'm sceptical if the train operates only a portion of the normal service to amended timings) then this is also not the first 'Plandampf' event in the UK: On 2nd October 2001, B1 61264 and K1 62005 worked selected scheduled passenger trains over the Fort William - Mallaig section of the West Highland Line. Normal cheap day returns were valid, and the four carriage trains were noted as being full to the point of standing room only as a result.

Whether these S&C workings can be claimed to be "the first timetabled ordinary main line passenger steam trains to run in England [EDIT: England, and not Britain as I originally read it as for some reason] for 50 years" therefore depends on your interpretation of the term "main line", although that's not to deny that they are a fascinating development. I'm on tenterhooks to find out about the arrangement for making reservations, as this seems like too good an opportunity to pass up.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Good idea, although is there a reason why it's in the middle of the week ?

Possibly as a means of encouraging use of off-peak trains that are otherwise quiet during the middle of the week, when there is already a greater demand for leisure travel at weekends? Also potentially aimed at drumming up some Valentine's Day trade, while reducing the potential for over-subscription of the services had the eager hordes all descended upon it if it had run on a Saturday. It strikes me that there's a balance to be struck between effectively increasing patronage and avoiding overcrowding.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I think I'll try take a ride on this, assuming the new dayrover will be valid.

Hope the Trolley service makes a killing, it will have been tough for them this last year.

 

[yorksrob]

Possibly as a means of encouraging use of off-peak trains that are otherwise quiet during the middle of the week, when there is already a greater demand for leisure travel at weekends? Also potentially aimed at drumming up some Valentine's Day trade, while reducing the potential for over-subscription of the services had the eager hordes all descended upon it if it had run on a Saturday. It strikes me that there's a balance to be struck between effectively increasing patronage and avoiding overcrowding.

Probably true - although even Saturday trains haven't been particularly crowded of late.

Alas, my one remaining day of annual leave is already spoken for, so will have to give this a miss.

 

[IanD]

Even if you do accept that claim (and, like you, I'm sceptical if the train operates only a portion of the normal service to amended timings) then this is also not the first 'Plandampf' event in the UK: On 2nd October 2001, B1 61264 and K1 62005 worked selected scheduled passenger trains over the Fort William - Mallaig section of the West Highland Line. Normal cheap day returns were valid, and the four carriage trains were noted as being full to the point of standing room only as a result.

Whether these S&C workings can be claimed to be "the first timetabled ordinary main line passenger steam trains to run in England for 50 years" therefore depends on your interpretation of the term "main line", although that's not to deny that they are a fascinating development.

Neither Fort William nor Mallaig are in England.

 

[sprinterguy]

Neither Fort William nor Mallaig are in England.

Whoops. Somehow I managed to entirely misread that caveat!

 

[trainmananthon]

I think I'll try take a ride on this, assuming the new dayrover will be valid.

Hope the Trolley service makes a killing, it will have been tough for them this last year.

Sure has been...roughly 75% down on passenger numbers since the line shut!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Interesting. Firstly, if the trains are re-timed and only covering a section of the full normal route, I would question the claim that they are normal service trains. Secondly, does anyone know what and how many coaches will be used?

Sounds like an interesting exercise and one that's sure to increase ridership for at least three days.

Your first Q) The first Appleby - Skipton and the last Skipton - Appleby look to be additional services, the 1045 ex Skipton and 1507 ex Appleby are both covering the express services 1M53 and 1E23 which terminate and originate at Appleby anyway. The only reason for not going to Leeds is there's no paths for it to.

Your second Q) Confirmed as 7 coaches each seating 64 plus a brake and support coach. think they are gonna be Mk2s

 

[RichmondCommu]

This is fantastic news! I've booked the day off work and train tickets have been purchased. In short I can't wait!

 

[SeanG]

Your second Q) Confirmed as 7 coaches each seating 64 plus a brake and support coach. think they are gonna be Mk2s

As an aside, did steam locos work with Mk2s towards the end. I can't find any pictures online but the timescales overlap (ie end of steam 1968, Mk2s built 1964 onwards)

 

[infobleep]

Sure has been...roughly 75% down on passenger numbers since the line shut!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Your first Q) The first Appleby - Skipton and the last Skipton - Appleby look to be additional services, the 1045 ex Skipton and 1507 ex Appleby are both covering the express services 1M53 and 1E23 which terminate and originate at Appleby anyway. The only reason for not going to Leeds is there's no paths for it to.

Your second Q) Confirmed as 7 coaches each seating 64 plus a brake and support coach. think they are gonna be Mk2s

If there are no paths, how are their paths for the DMU or does that work a different service back and that's where the lack of paths are.

Whatever I think this is a great idea. I'd love to do it but not sure if I can justify the costs of getting their and staying over right now.

I especially like the idea because it's a regular service so any ticket valid for that line is valid.

I see some cheap advances exist. Have to look at the map. I'd want to do it as part of a longer journey, where the steam service was just one part of the journey there and another part back.

 

[gnolife]

If there are no paths, how are their paths for the DMU or does that work a different service back and that's where the lack of paths are.

Whatever I think this is a great idea. I'd love to do it but not sure if I can justify the costs of getting their and staying over right now.

I especially like the idea because it's a regular service so any ticket valid for that line is valid.

I would guess that because of it being slower it can't keep to time in its usual path, and would delay the arrival of the 17:42 from Ilkley at Leeds

Also, I would guess that the additional length of it will have an impact on platforming it at Leeds

 

[roversfan2001]

I'm very interested in this, been meaning to do the S&C for a while anyway, even more reason to do it now!

 

[70014IronDuke]

As an aside, did steam locos work with Mk2s towards the end. I can't find any pictures online but the timescales overlap (ie end of steam 1968, Mk2s built 1964 onwards)

In theory, I suppose some of the first, vacuum-braked Mk2s on the ER could have found themselves behind steam, most probably due to a diesel failure at somewhere like Doncaster or Darlington. Not sure if it ever happened or not.

But I think some of the very first Mk2s on the Southern certainly were steam-hauled in 66-67 on the Bournemouth line. In fact, I think i remember this - but of course, the memory can get quite fuzzed over time. The SR had them painted green.

 

[chorleyjeff]

I don't know off hand. Was in a book but I can't remember which one.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thanks for that. Interesting. I never thought I'd see a timetabled steam service using a standard ticket come back. Very tempted to travel up there.

Peesonally it wouldn't bother me if I had to stand as it would be like commuting. I image there were times when people had to stand on steam services over 50 years ago. I'm sure that's nothing new.

Certainly was standing on steam trains but not on the s&c methinks. It was a very sparse service not well patronised.