Northern Steam services on the Settle and Carlisle

[harz99]

I thought all the Northern staff were great, all seemed to be enjoying themselves, did they volunteer for this extra duty?

Yes, pretty much all the Northern staff were volunteers from what I gathered talking to quite a few on train.

 

[Iskra]

A review of my journey on Tornado including pictures: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2889538&postcount=161

 

[crehld]

Nice, but more than just nice. Not because I think it might create a few enthusiasts (great if it does) but because, if the teachers use the opportunity wisely they can use Tornado to help kids get an understanding of science - physics, chemistry and mechanics - along with social and technical history. Plus, of course, local geography. And as a minimum, hopefully - that trains don't have steering wheels

I wasn't really paying attention to what they were talking about, but they were being spoken to by various people. As I went past them there was a guy from Northern talking to the kids about railway safety, so there was some educational value to their outing at least.

 

[Class 170101]

Heard a lot of chat on the trains about how people would like to see this done again, IMHO once the S&C is up and running with all the freight paths in use again, and a through passenger service to Carlisle I can't see there being enough slots to pull it off. Would be nice but don't think so.

I imagine there will be some slots on the S&C due to the major decline in coal traffic. Remember the line was resignalled for coal traffic which now doesn't run in the quantity it used to.

Even if limited to Carlisle - Skipton connecting with either a fast EMU to Leeds, will probably get some additional passengers and media coverage when the line fully reopens. For example the 68 hauled set in Anglia has probably caused a small uplift in passenger numbers

Both the 68 and 37 definitely resulted in an uplift of passenger numbers - mostly cranks as one would expect.

 

[LeylandLen]

One thing that help passenger numbers, in my opinion , is connecting service the 13 miles or so from Clitheroe to Hellifield. Perhaps every two hours? at least one early one to allow us Lancastrians to use the S&C for a day without having to go thro Bradford, changing stations, or going all the way to Leeds .If its a question of no spare rolling stock , why not lay on a fast bus service ?
Hellifield is a very nicely restored station which could be used a lot more .

 

[30907]

One thing that help passenger numbers, in my opinion , is connecting service the 13 miles or so from Clitheroe to Hellifield. Perhaps every two hours? at least one early one to allow us Lancastrians to use the S&C for a day without having to go thro Bradford, changing stations, or going all the way to Leeds .If its a question of no spare rolling stock , why not lay on a fast bus service ?
Hellifield is a very nicely restored station which could be used a lot more .

Fast bus service? There's decent ones to Skipton -X80/280 from Preston/Clitheroe, X43 from Manchester/Nelson. I considered using it on Thursday but as I'd have had to drive part way anyway decided against.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

One thing that help passenger numbers, in my opinion , is connecting service the 13 miles or so from Clitheroe to Hellifield. Perhaps every two hours? at least one early one to allow us Lancastrians to use the S&C for a day without having to go thro Bradford, changing stations, or going all the way to Leeds .If its a question of no spare rolling stock , why not lay on a fast bus service ?
Hellifield is a very nicely restored station which could be used a lot more .

Yes, I would agree with you, I have often thought that the services to Clitheroe should be extended to Hellifield. (Or at least some of them.) I think there is even a disused bay platform that could be cleared and used for that. Lots more connection permutations could then be possible. (Does the Sunday only service still run? I think from Blackpool to Carlisle via the S&C <When the line is fully open of course>)?

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Yes, it did seem a bit incongruous travelling behind steam in air-conditioned stock of the type currently in daily service on the Cumbrian coast and, as you say, previously in use on the S&C with 37s a little over a decade ago. The trip was also much akin to the journey I made over the route on the 37 hauled "Cumbrian Crusader IV" railtour in 2011, even down to the provenance of the stock used as I recall, as well as the consumption of ale and genial conversation with fellow passengers.

Of course, things will seem even stranger once 'Tornado' has it's own dedicated rake of fully refurbished mark 3 stock fitted with all mod cons.

I did not know that Tornado will be getting it's own rake of carriages. (If they are mark 3, does that mean that they won't have opening window top lights that can be opened which you can do on most MK 1 & Mk2s at the moment. I presume that the Anglia stock used this week was like that)

I am pleased that all seemed to go well with these services this week, hope it could be repeated every now and again.

Did they water and coal the loco at Skipton by bowsers/hydrant? I know they have a water tower at Appleby.

 

[robbeale]

(Does the Sunday only service still run? I think from Blackpool to Carlisle via the S&C <When the line is fully open of course>)?

The Sunday service still runs, I used it the other week. In winter the unit never ventures onto the S&C anyway and does two Preston - Clitheroe - Hellifield returns.

In summer I think the unit travels all the way to Carlisle, which actually means there's only one link north, and one south between Clitheroe and Hellifield in summer, wheras in winter there are two journeys each way.

 

[harz99]

I did not know that Tornado will be getting it's own rake of carriages. (If they are mark 3, does that mean that they won't have opening window top lights that can be opened which you can do on most MK 1 & Mk2s at the moment. I presume that the Anglia stock used this week was like that)

I am pleased that all seemed to go well with these services this week, hope it could be repeated every now and again.

Did they water and coal the loco at Skipton by bowsers/hydrant? I know they have a water tower at Appleby.

Mk3 are sealed window air con stock, as are MK2E&F. I think the Anglia rake was 2F (though didn't check actual numbers) and had semi high back IC70 seats all in groups of 4 around tables which allows most of us a view of the scenery on both sides across the carriage.

All coaling/watering was done at Appleby sidings/platform, the time at Skipton being fully taken up be reforming the consist and unloading/shunting/loading.

 

[mushroomchow]

I don't profess to know that much about the Mk 3 rake the trust are preparing for Tornado, but I know two things which make it a very exciting development:

1. The main purpose is to allow regular 90mph running on tours, for which NR are willing to give the A1 trust dispensation.
2. The at-seat windows are being altered to be openable.

Basically, you're getting arguably the rail network's most comfortable standard stock, the sounds of Tornado working hard from your seat and enough pace to keep up with modern timetables. What's not to love? Purists will hate it, but then again steam has lead mk. 3s before - case in point, the Duchess of Sutherland on the royal train.

And besides, Tornado is not a period piece - you can't argue that a loco built in 2008 should be matched with the 'correct' coaches - if anything, it should be hauling the upcoming CAF Mk. 5s!

 

[Crossover]

Yes, I would agree with you, I have often thought that the services to Clitheroe should be extended to Hellifield. (Or at least some of them.) I think there is even a disused bay platform that could be cleared and used for that. Lots more connection permutations could then be possible. (Does the Sunday only service still run? I think from Blackpool to Carlisle via the S&C <When the line is fully open of course>)?

I travelled on it last August from Appleby to Blackburn. The unit just stabled for quite some time at Appleby due to the closure

Did they water and coal the loco at Skipton by bowsers/hydrant? I know they have a water tower at Appleby.

The water tower at Appleby wasn't used as far as I am aware and I believe all work took place in the siding at Appleby. As stated elsewhere, Skipton was purely a run-round and shunting operation

I don't profess to know that much about the Mk 3 rake the trust are preparing for Tornado, but I know two things which make it a very exciting development:

1. The main purpose is to allow regular 90mph running on tours, for which NR are willing to give the A1 trust dispensation.
2. The at-seat windows are being altered to be openable.

Basically, you're getting arguably the rail network's most comfortable standard stock, the sounds of Tornado working hard from your seat and enough pace to keep up with modern timetables. What's not to love? Purists will hate it, but then again steam has lead mk. 3s before - case in point, the Duchess of Sutherland on the royal train.

And besides, Tornado is not a period piece - you can't argue that a loco built in 2008 should be matched with the 'correct' coaches - if anything, it should be hauling the upcoming CAF Mk. 5s!

The 90 mph derogation was something one of the trust members mentioned on Tuesday - apparently it will be timed for 75mph still but would be able to run at 90mph to make up time if delayed and if linespeed allowed. A bit like the sleeper, really

 

[1D53]

The water tower at Appleby wasn't used as far as I am aware and I believe all work took place in the siding at Appleby. As stated elsewhere, Skipton was purely a run-round and shunting operation

The tower was used before the 1457 departure on all three days.

 

[Crossover]

The tower was used before the 1457 departure on all three days.

Must have been quick with it then, as I watched the 1457 arrive into the platform and we didn't leave that much after

 

[Ianigsy]

Coach companies also book a block of reservations but usually on the 1049 Leeds to Carlisle between Settle and Appleby or Carlisle but this train is usually a 4 car so can take ot

On the two occasions I've used the Kyle of Lochalsh line, the first time half the unit for my return journey to Inverness was booked out as something called The Travelling Classroom and the second time there was a coach party booked to join at Garve.

In a few years, The Unknown Warrior should also be available for a similar exercise- 21st century steam locos should be able to perform to an acceptable standard of reliability for some of the slacker weeks in the calendar.

 

[harz99]

Must have been quick with it then, as I watched the 1457 arrive into the platform and we didn't leave that much after

No, it wasn't as the stock was in the platform waiting to depart at 1457. Twas around 1330/1400 when Tornado did a shunt from sidings to platform, took water then back to sidings.

 

[Crossover]

No, it wasn't as the stock was in the platform waiting to depart at 1457. Twas around 1330/1400 when Tornado did a shunt from sidings to platform, took water then back to sidings.

Ah - I did wonder if that may happen. Alas, I was in Lazonby between turns

 

[Trainfan344]

I did the trip to Armthwaite and back between the turns so missed that. We were held outside the station on return for Tornado to utilise the platform so I presume that was when it was taking on water.

 

[Trainfan344]

I heard a Northern employee say that the reason Tornado did Appleby to Skipton rather than wait until the line fully re-opened was because she would need to take on water if continuing on to Carlisle whereas she could make the shorter run on one fill. Also, when open fully, with more freight, timings would be harder to find. I do hope it goes ahead again, but I think it's more likely we may see the DRS 37'S on specials on the S&C once they're not needed on the coast line. Here's hoping anyway!

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk

Tornado only took on Water at Appleby, so did Appleby - Skipton - Appleby on one tank of Water. Sounds like one trip Skipton-Carlisle could be doable on one tank, providing that somewhere is found to take on water at Skipton.

 

[markydh]

Tornado only took on Water at Appleby, so did Appleby - Skipton - Appleby on one tank of Water. Sounds like one trip Skipton-Carlisle could be doable on one tank, providing that somewhere is found to take on water at Skipton.

There's a hydrant at Hellifield.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Well, the actual Tornado runs appear to have been a whirlwind of a success

Which is great. But do we have evidence of the 'greater message'? ie that the general public are aware that the S&C is re-opening next month?

 

[70014IronDuke]

Yes, pretty much all the Northern staff were volunteers from what I gathered talking to quite a few on train.

Do you mean they were volunteers working without pay (as opposed to volunteering for the duty)? Really remarkable if so. And it would make the whole project that much more viable to do.

 

[jumble]

Likewise for me on the Thursday. I travelled Skipton-Appleby-Skipton-Appleby then caught the extra coach to Carlisle. The 17h15 from Skipton was rather empty in the non-reserved coaches, I had a table to myself (I did have a reserved seat in Coach A but thought that there would be more room near the front, and there was).
I thought all the Northern staff were great, all seemed to be enjoying themselves, did they volunteer for this extra duty? Wonderful to see loads of young schoolchildren on the platform at Skipton being well and truly looked after and entertained by a Northern employee, they seemed to enjoy the friendly wave from a suitably grubby footplateman on 'Tornado'.
...and the crowds at Ribblehead, never seen so many!
Very glad that I made the effort to go.

Me too
Althought I am southerner I stayed with relatives in Newcastle and drove to Appleby for the 1457 arrived well early and queued by the bridge as we couldnt get reservations (most of which are rumoured to have gone to the Tornado supporters which if true is in my view perfectly reasonable)
It was very well organised
A tiny first world but unecessary issue was that people who were queuing were sheperded into one coach at a time and so some would have sat backwards and others who had queued for less time would be in better seats but we were lucky and had forward facers.
On the way back 17.15 Skipton we moved from our reserved seats into the staff coach and had a table to ourselves.
Over all a fantastic day well worth driving 700 miles and I hope Northern do it again.
Thanks to a nice Northern lady at Skipton who fetched my dog fresh water from the cooler.

Regards Jumble

 

[Iskra]

Well, the actual Tornado runs appear to have been a whirlwind of a success

Which is great. But do we have evidence of the 'greater message'? ie that the general public are aware that the S&C is re-opening next month?

That has been my concern throughout all this, the real message has rarely been mentioned. However, it was finally mentioned in the most recent BBC News article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-39020181

More than 5,000 people travelled on the first timetabled steam train service on the Settle to Carlisle railway line in 50 years, Northern Rail has said.
Tornado, the newest steam locomotive in Britain, pulled 12 Northern services over three days from 14 -16 February.
The company described the event as "a remarkable success" and has not ruled out running similar services again.
It was part of celebrations to mark the upcoming reopening of the line after landslides closed a long stretch.
Paul Barnfield, Northern Rail regional director, said: "During the three days just over 5,500 people travelled on the steam services and it was great to see so many entering into the spirit of the celebration.
"This was the first timetabled steam service in England for almost 50 years and to be able to bring Tornado to such an iconic and visually stunning line, as a way of saying thank you, was a genuine pleasure."
Settle-Carlisle Railway
Construction began in 1869 and ended in 1876
6,000 labourers worked on building the railway
It runs for 72 miles between Settle in North Yorkshire and Carlisle in Cumbria
Handles 1.3m passenger journeys a year
Features 20 viaducts and 14 tunnels
Dent Station, at 1,150ft (350.5m), is the highest mainline station in England
Graeme Bunker, of the Darlington-based A1 Steam Locomotive Trust, which built Tornado, said: "To see the many thousands who travelled and many thousands more enjoying the event at the line side made the endeavour very worthwhile and delivered a welcome boost to the local community after recent challenges.
"I am very proud of my team for their part in ensuring the services ran so successfully."



Douglas Hodgins, of the Friends of Settle to Carlisle Line, added: "There must be lessons here about the demand for steam, scenery and rail travel in general. It was the perfect curtain-raiser for the reopening of the line on 31 March."
It took 18 years for the trust to build the £3m Tornado 60163, which can achieve speeds of 75mph (120km/h). It was completed in 2008.
The Appleby to Carlisle stretch of line closed in February 2016 after a 500,000-tonne landslip at Armathwaite.

 

[mervyn72]

When will the direct trains along the whole route be added to the search engines as nothing there yet post 31/03... Makes me wonder how certain they are of this date

 

[Adam0984]

Subject to any last minute disasters the 31st March is pretty much set in stone. Northern have about a week to route learn all their crews again and will be using a 142 each day running between Appleby and Carlisle a few times a day before the big day on the 31st. During that week all trains will terminate at Appleby for bus connections to allow the route learning specials to have full run as I'd have thought that the freight companies will have similar plans

 

[berneyarms]

That has been my concern throughout all this, the real message has rarely been mentioned. However, it was finally mentioned in the most recent BBC News article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-39020181

The reopening of the line was mentioned during the introduction to the news reports all day long on the BBC News channel and on BBC One on the first day of steam operations.

Hardly "rarely" mentioned at all!

 

[Iskra]

The reopening of the line was mentioned during the introduction to the news reports all day long on the BBC News channel and on BBC One on the first day of steam operations.

Hardly "rarely" mentioned at all!

That's great if you were sat at home all day watching that, but the more time-conscious evening coverage that I saw didn't mention it, and I'm guessing more people watch the news in the evenings compared to during the middle of the day...

 

[sprinterguy]

And besides, Tornado is not a period piece - you can't argue that a loco built in 2008 should be matched with the 'correct' coaches - if anything, it should be hauling the upcoming CAF Mk. 5s!

'Tornado' has been built to replicate a 1940s locomotive type, though: There've been some improvements made to the original design as a result of hindsight and advances in technology but these have all been 'disguised' within the A1 form. As such, it surely seems logical to pair it with period coaching stock, which on the main line means mark 1s are as near as you can get.

 

[berneyarms]

That's great if you were sat at home all day watching that, but the more time-conscious evening coverage that I saw didn't mention it, and I'm guessing more people watch the news in the evenings compared to during the middle of the day...

Read my post above again.

It was actually mentioned on the BBC One bulletins in the introduction to the reports.

They referred to the steam being operated to mark the reopening of the line to Carlisle.

You mustn't have noticed it.

As to what I was doing during the day - that is of zero relevance.