Mcr Warrior
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 8 Jan 2009
- Messages
- 13,839
What I should have said was that when faxing was extensively used in business, the shipping industry stuck to telex when it was being phased out elsewhere.So almost 30 years ago then. That's a long time in a working environment.
On leading page in the Times also.It's made the front page of today's print edition of the "Manchester Evening News". Unsurprising as the story almost writes itself!
View attachment 168273
(Pic of front cover of the "Manchester Evening News" (Thursday 31st October 2024) with the main headline "Fax and Friction" - Mayor slams Northern bosses...)
Agreed, if it works, why change it?If fax machines are working, why bother about it? The airline industry still uses dot-matrix printers to print loading sheets in triplicate because it still works.
The railway has plenty of tech still in use that's older than fax machines!
Well, there are examples of various private companies, including Aldi, still using fax as well.My post generated the range of responses I expected!
What happens in other industries is not completely irrelevant, particularly when you are a (rightly) subsidised service industry.
It's not a good look, and that, like it or not, is important
Is it? as someone who has never used a fax machine in their life, I don't see why it matters as long as staff know what they're supposed to do in time. Northern has bigger problems in my view, including whatever is causing all those cancellations recently...On leading page in the Times also.
It is clear from reading some of the comments here that those in the railway industry seriously do not understand how astounded real world people are.
It really is an appalling advert for the industry as it is today.
On leading page in the Times also.
It is clear from reading some of the comments here that those in the railway industry seriously do not understand how astounded real world people are.
It really is an appalling advert for the industry as it is today.
Indeed, I believe the Police used cassette tapes for interview recordings until very recently (or maybe even still do). I also understand some aircraft are still updated via floppy disk.Why would anyone who works in rail care how astounded 'real world' people are?
I'm sure there are plenty of outdated or archaic working practices in existence in say, the NHS, or the Police Force, or in many other industries. If those practices work for them, what business is it of anyone else's to comment or feel entitled to pass judgement? I couldn't care less what happens in any industry that I don't work in, so why do you?
Why is a productivity deal required to phase out fax machines?Yes we still use fax machines.
There is no agreement between Unions and Northern to communicate via e mail.
To get an agreement, a productivity deal needs to be agreed.
Fax machines have zero bearing on delays and cancellations.
Only because of bandwidth... Inmarsat C is a telex based system that was very much cheaper than the alternative satellite based systems at the time.What I should have said was that when faxing was extensively used in business, the shipping industry stuck to telex when it was being phased out elsewhere.
Telex documents also had international legal standing.Only because of bandwidth... Inmarsat C is a telex based system that was very much cheaper than the alternative satellite based systems at the time.
Hasn't the NHS (also) been mocked recently for relying heavily on FAX machines?
I'm disappointed at the MEN hyping this, it's reminiscent of the Murdoch Press in the Thatcher years pillorying the BR Pension Scheme for owning Old Masters, antique furniture and farmland.
In fact a friend in the pensions industry told me back in the late '70s that the BR pension scheme was seen as exemplary - and I remember that a medieval trunk that they sold in the aftermath of the publicity still made a very handsome profit. Soon after that the Tories changed the law to force pension funds out of such investments so that they were tied into the crooks in the City... Go figure, as they say.
So are you saying Northern are keeping fax machines as an investment?Hasn't the NHS (also) been mocked recently for relying heavily on FAX machines?
I'm disappointed at the MEN hyping this, it's reminiscent of the Murdoch Press in the Thatcher years pillorying the BR Pension Scheme for owning Old Masters, antique furniture and farmland.
In fact a friend in the pensions industry told me back in the late '70s that the BR pension scheme was seen as exemplary - and I remember that a medieval trunk that they sold in the aftermath of the publicity still made a very handsome profit. Soon after that the Tories changed the law to force pension funds out of such investments so that they were tied into the crooks in the City... Go figure, as they say.
Well on the railway if management want to implement changes they need to be negotiated, not imposed. What happens in other industries is completely irrelevant. End of.
If it works what exactly is the problem? I'm the same people writing these headlines would be writing songs just as scathing had a move to new tech gone wrong or similar.
Why would anyone who works in rail care how astounded 'real world' people are?
If it affects the efficiency which which my taxes are spent, or the price of my train tickets, or the quality/reliability of the service I get, I very much care!I'm sure there are plenty of outdated or archaic working practices in existence in say, the NHS, or the Police Force, or in many other industries. If those practices work for them, what business is it of anyone else's to comment or feel entitled to pass judgement? I couldn't care less what happens in any industry that I don't work in, so why do you?
It still exists although was sold at PrivatisationI recall vaguely (maybe incorrectly) BR had its own internal telephone network and exchanges as part of the signalling system, something akin to Mercury or Kingston Communications. Indeed a number of class 20s carried BRT livery around the time of privatisation.
How much of this still exists and has this any bearing on the continued use of fax machines?
How much use is made of the public networks?
At my previous place of work (not railway related) we retained a single fax machine because we still received them, albeit few in number, until about 2019.
I guess this thinking is why the airline industry goes to great lengths to hide how archaic their underlying systems are.I care. Very much. And I know I’m not alone in that.
Because things like this portray the industry in a bad light, and it does none of us a favour. And believ it or not, it distracts people from doign the job - at all levels. Including Ministerial.
I agree totally.I care. Very much. And I know I’m not alone in that.
Because things like this portray the industry in a bad light, and it does none of us a favour. And believ it or not, it distracts people from doign the job - at all levels. Including Ministerial.
I guess this thinking is why the airline industry goes to great lengths to hide how archaic their underlying systems are.
Compensated? No. It needed to be done. It could be paid for by removing the payment for fax machine skills, so net zero.Agreed practice. All of the vitriol about union agreement is pointless really, this one should have been agreed, compensated and put to bed long ago.
In terms of good use of public money, zero compensation. That's fair. It's the same as everyone else in society.Compensated? No. It needed to be done. It could be paid for by removing the payment for fax machine skills, so net zero.