Northern: The Great Unit Cascade

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by darloscott, 4 Feb 2018.

  1. darloscott

    darloscott Member

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    I see from posts elsewhere on Facebook that ex-Scotrail 158870 is in the process of transferring to Barrow today in order to start crew training on 158s from Barrow prior to their introduction in May. It's worked from Leeds to York and back across to Preston this morning attached to other 158s. It'll then run ECS to Barrow later.

    I thought we could use a new thread apart from the refurbishments for the cascade of units onto new pastures over the next few years as new units are introduced and the older units are cascaded onto different diagrams, into new areas and services are strengthened.
     
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  3. stu99

    stu99 Member

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    Thought I would would post a list on what so far Northern have received...
    GWR
    150124 now in Northern Livery

    150102 Now in Northern Livery Transferred 3rd December 2017
    150122

    150101 Transferred 3rd Feb NH
    150123
    150129

    150108 Transferred 17th Feb
    150120
    150128

    150104 Transferred 10th March
    150106

    150121 Transferred 17th March
    150127

    150130 Transferred 29th March
    150131

    153305 Transferred 14th May
    153373
    153380

    ScotRail

    158870 Transferred 4th Jan
    158871

    170459 transferred 01/08/18
    170460
    170461 Transferred /08/18
    170472
    170473 Transferred /08/18
    170474
    170475 Transferred 6th March
    170476 now in Northern Livery, transferred 8th March
    170477 Transferred 8th March
    170478 Transferred 6th March
     
    Last edited: 3 Aug 2018
  4. SteveyBee131

    SteveyBee131 Member

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    Very good idea :D
     
  5. Parallel

    Parallel Established Member

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    150101 and 150129 must have transferred very recently - I’ve been on them/seen them recently on the GWR network!
     
  6. PHILIPE

    PHILIPE Established Member

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  7. djpontrack

    djpontrack Member

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    I need 150101 and 150124 for haulage so that's good that they are with Northern now.
     
  8. coxxy

    coxxy Member

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    Just been going through the Northern Franchise agreement to try and work out when units were/are apparently due to Northern so here goes..

    1st June 2016 -
    32(8x4 car) class 319
    1st December 2016 -
    16(4x4 car) class 319
    1st September 2017 -
    30 (15x 2 car) class 150's
    1st January 2018 -
    4 (2x 2 car) class 150's
    1st July 2018 -
    48 (16x 3 car) class 170's - NB I believe crew training has already begun with these hoping to start being cascaded for May timetable change.
    1st January 2019 -
    16 (8x 2 car) class 158's
    10(5x2 car) class 156
    1st April 2019 -
    6 (3x 2car) class 150's
    6 (2x 3 car) class 150's
    January 2020 -
    50(25x2) class 195
    90(30x3) class 195
    February 2020 -
    93(31x3) class 331
    48(12x4) class 331
    1st December 2022 -
    36(18x2 car) - unspecified but equivalent to 2 car class 170

    In terms of stock going OFF Lease and returning to the ROSCOS the plans (from franchise agreement) are:

    April 2017
    -
    1 x class 153
    September 2018 -
    10(5x2 car) class 144
    October 2018 -
    4(2x2 car) class 144
    November 2018 -
    8(4x2 car) class 144
    10(5x2 car) class 142
    21(7x3 car) class 323
    December 2018 -
    38(19x2 car) class 142
    30(10x3 car) class 323
    January 2019 -
    4(2x2 car) class 144
    18(9x2 car) class 142
    February 2019 -
    20(10x2 car) class 142
    Early March 2019 -
    16(8x2 car) class 142
    Late March 2019 -
    2(1x2 car) class 142
    30(10x3 car) class 144
    April 2019 -
    10(5x2 car) class 142
    May 2019 -
    4(2x2 car) class 142
    7 x class 153
    June 2019 -
    12(6x2 car) class 142
    July 2019 -
    8(4x2 car) class 142
    8(2x4) class 321
    August 2019 -
    4(1x4) class 321
    8(4x2 car) class 142
    2 x class 153
    4(1x4 car) class 322
    September 2019-
    8(4x2 car) class 142
    2 x class 153
    8(2x4 car) class 322
    October 2019-
    4(2x2 car) class 142
    2 x class 153
    8(2x4 car) class 322
    November 2019 -
    4 X class 153


    If I've made any mistakes then please feel free to flag it up. As I said this is going off the information in the franchise agreement.. things may have or may will change.. who knows
     
    Last edited: 8 Feb 2018
  9. Agent_Squash

    Agent_Squash Member

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    Now that WMT doesn't want the 323s, surely there's a chance that the agreement will be amended so the 323s stay instead of the 319s?
     
  10. coxxy

    coxxy Member

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    Would definitely make sense.. I don't think northern are planning on losing any 323's any time soon anyway
     
  11. gazthomas

    gazthomas Established Member

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    Forgive me, I’ve been on a Northern 158 to Barrow multiple times - what training is required?
     
  12. Agent_Squash

    Agent_Squash Member

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    Indeed. The DfT don't want to be giving the impression that the North really is just getting London's castoffs...
     
  13. coxxy

    coxxy Member

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    Not sure but would imagine the train crew depots up there aren't competent in 158's and it is to get guards and/or drivers trained on them.
     
  14. Shaw S Hunter

    Shaw S Hunter Established Member

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    How recently was the last such occasion?

    One of the reasons our railways are so safe is the strong aversion to risk. This is reflected in the rigourous system of competency management of safety critical staff including traincrew. Generally speaking if a member of traincrew has gone 6 months without working a specific type of traction they require a refresher before being able to work that traction type again. Less clear is how long a period may elapse with neither work nor refresher. However I would imagine that for Barrow crews at least any return to working class 158s would require complete retraining such is the time that has elapsed since they last had booked work on them.
     
  15. Bevan Price

    Bevan Price Established Member

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    It must be at least 10 years since Class 158 worked to Barrow - when did TP start sending 185s to Barrow? Use of 158s ceased at about the same time.
     
  16. LowLevel

    LowLevel Established Member

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    Using where I work as a rule of thumb... until 10 years ago the depot used to work class 150 and 170. Out of 100 ish guards now at least I would say 60% have never signed those classes. You can't just reintroduce things many years later.
     
  17. 1179_Clee2

    1179_Clee2 Member

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    Three more currently on route from Bristol
    150108
    150120
    150128
     
  18. stu99

    stu99 Member

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    Thanks I've updated the list,
     
  19. fulmar

    fulmar Member

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    The last time 158s ran to Barrow was about 2002 when the service was worked by First North Western. They were only used for a couple of years due to problems with the introduction of the 175s. Full training will be required for all Barrow crews due to the length of time since they last worked with 158s.
     
  20. Adam0984

    Adam0984 Member

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    Full training won't be needed for Barrow crews on 158s as it's just a conversation course from 156s
     
  21. Class 170101

    Class 170101 Established Member

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    I can't see any of the units in 2018 going anywhere especially the DMUs as Northern don't have enough trains to run services right now
     
  22. coxxy

    coxxy Member

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    Believe me I highly doubt that as well.. Will certainly be interesting to see what happens come May timetable change.. I know it won't be anywhere near as big as originally planned but at the minute they are robbing Peter to pay Paul daily. Any service increase is go in to hurt them.
     
  23. 1179_Clee2

    1179_Clee2 Member

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    170 475, 476, 477 and 478 have arrived in Leeds from Scotrail
     
  24. Adam0984

    Adam0984 Member

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    475 and 478 are at Neville Hill, 477 is at Holbeck and 476 has left to go to Crewe for northernisation
     
  25. stu99

    stu99 Member

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    Thanks for updating me :), when did 477 and 476 come down?
     
  26. stu99

    stu99 Member

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  27. Geeves

    Geeves Member

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    I suppose one plus with the 142s and 144s is that no one is waiting for them. The delays can only really be a bonus to leasing company as the only place they are going is the scrap yard. The usual thing is some TOC gets screwed.

    170s taking over from 142s is one hell of a change!
     
  28. Chester1

    Chester1 Established Member

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    I am sticking with my guess that the 144s will go to the next W&B ToC, they will need to send a huge number of 150s away for PRM-TSI upgrade and have all of them done within 14 months of taking over. Don't forget that 15 DMUs have already arrived, Manchester to Preston wiring will free up aproximately 16 DMUs and 195s should enter service in December. Further units will be cascaded over the next 9 months and the 769s may arrive too. Its entirely possible that the Northern cascades will be back on schedule in December.
     
  29. notlob.divad

    notlob.divad Established Member

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    I think you may be right, as even if WA went for a full replacement fleet I don't see how they would possibly arrive in time.

    However Northern have their own issues with PRM mods. Looking at the list on the refurbishment thread, there are still an awful lot that have not been away for the required modifications.
     
  30. geoffk

    geoffk Member

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    A helpful list. Did a 153 actually leave in April 2017 and, if so, where to? I assume London Midland/West Midlands Trains for the new Kenilworth service (not yet started!)
     

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